Should I overlook the fact this guy is employed by The Cato Institute, which is funded by big oil?
No, but also don't miss the fact that most of those on the other side are funded by big government. Neither side is neutral.
How to Manufacture a Climate Consensus
11–20 of 58 posts
Re: How to Manufacture a Climate Consensus
#12As a scientist, I find it depressing that people would engage in this kind of behavior. But on the issue, I just watched this MIT "debate" about the impact of this incident: http://mitworld.mit.edu/video/730 One thing I specifically remember is that one of the panel members (and member of the IPCC) concluded that the attempt by Mann et al. to bury conflicting studies was not successful, as some of those very papers w…
http://climateaudit.org/2009/12/17/climategatekeeping-2/#mor...
It seems to have been included with a dismissive editorial comment ("Michaels says X, but he's wrong"), which was not supported by any literature, and which the authors were not given the chance to respond to before publication. Just mentioning that "it was included" is a bit misleading.
Re: How to Manufacture a Climate Consensus
#13Should I overlook the fact this guy is employed by The Cato Institute, which is funded by big oil?
I donate money to the NRA because they support gun rights. The NRA doesn't support gun rights because I personally give them money.
Re: How to Manufacture a Climate Consensus
#14Re: How to Manufacture a Climate Consensus
#15[deleted]
The conservative thing to do is to gather data before making trillion-dollar changes to the global economy, while spending money on moderate cost green energy research (but not billion-dollar ethanol mandates).
Re: How to Manufacture a Climate Consensus
#16Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is just ad hominem. You might as well say "I am politically on the left and I don't like the Cato Institute". It would be more honest. As an aside, the Cato Institute turned down a donation from Fannie Mae before the financial crash so as to avoid the appearance of bias in their advocacy, so I have a bit of respect for them. How many think-tanks would do the same? Yes, they were founded with a gift from the Koch…
meta-note: I've noticed a tendency on HN for commenters to impeach people sometimes without good reason (this case may or may not be a good example, that's not the point) On several articles today the comments basically boiled down to an ad-hominem -- and this was on subjects as far-ranging as naval warfare, startups, science, etc. I'd like to call it out more, but there's so much of it -- it's a lost cause, I think.
Re: How to Manufacture a Climate Consensus
#17[deleted]
There is a very clear link between GDP per capita and life expectancy, literacy, health, and a host of other social benefits. Holding back the industrialization of the world for potential far-off benefits has very real human costs now, in the present. If we wait 5 years to sign a Global Warming treaty, nobody will die. If we take trillions from the global economy to mitigate gas emissions that turn out to be harmless…
Also, a 20-40% reduction in greenhouse gasses would (if done efficiently) cost less than 1 trillion over the next 20. years. (Multiply the cost Delta between electricity produced with coal to that produced non C02 producing options over their lifetime.)
PS: I often see people use the term "begging the question incorrectly" so I felt the need to point it out.
Edit: Wow, lots of hate. Do the math 1,000,000 * 1 million $ is a LOT of money, and coal plants have a finite lifetime.
Re: How to Manufacture a Climate Consensus
#18This is a pretty powerful article. Regardless of your thoughts on global warming, it's rather upsetting to see scientists' careers ruined through having opinions differing than the gatekeepers of the peer reviewing system.
The experiences of John Harrison and the Board of Longitude and the Royal Society, or the initial reception of the work of Barry J. Marshall and Robin Warren around H. Pylori, both come to mind.
Most any large shift can involve overcoming very strongly-held beliefs; of sticking your neck out.
Re: How to Manufacture a Climate Consensus
#19This is a pretty powerful article. Regardless of your thoughts on global warming, it's rather upsetting to see scientists' careers ruined through having opinions differing than the gatekeepers of the peer reviewing system.
1. Scientists ruin their careers by repeatedly attempting to discredit theories they cannot find the evidence to discredit (or proving claims they cannot find proof to claim). If a truly compelling set of studies discrediting global warming trends came out, you can be sure that many publications would be eager to publish it. This is how science works, and how it has worked historically. It's a surprisingly stable environment of meritocracy. Politics intrude, as in any human endeavor, but we'll get to that in:
2. Differences in opinion in the peer review process are as old as science. That is why there are multiple publications and multiple standards for entering into those publications. The whole notion of "scientific consensus" is built around assumptions like schisms such as this. If everyone agreed about the exact criterion for publication we'd only have a few (perhaps regional) scientific publications (and then we'd truly be in trouble).
3. Science is about consensus, but that implicitly accepts dissent. People argue for awhile, a consensus is formed, and then things blow over. Seldom are careers ruined. For an example, see Einstein's extremely controversial claims that eventually became the next major stepping stone for physics. People violently opposed his propositions at first, and now we look at him is one of the greatest minds in human history.
The difference here is that there are active sources of misinformation trying, for whatever non-scientific reasons, to drum up controversy around the global warming issue of anthropogenicity. This issue is still under active debate and research, but unlike many other subjects in a similar status (e.g., quantum physics) there are "deniers" who will not accept any positive evidence against their claim and will resort to any means, social or otherwise, to make their point of view supreme.
Some might argue this is warranted because climate science is making predictions that require us to radically restructure our industry and energy infrastructures to the tune of massive sums of money. To be honest, I think this complaint is shortsighted. Scientific predictions, even those in the limbo state between "well-accepted" and "just a theory" that we are calling "consensus", have always dictated the allocation of resources. Consider the exorbitant cost of the LHC, which is one of the single greatest achievements of human engineering and physics.
Re: How to Manufacture a Climate Consensus
#20Earlier quoted context omitted.
No, but also don't miss the fact that most of those on the other side are funded by big government. Neither side is neutral.
Fair enough, but the security and welfare of citizens is the primary interest of big government (o.k. secondary, but aligned with the primary interest of getting re-elected), whereas big oil has no interest other than making loot. With respect to climate change, big oil loot comes at the expense of our planet (and our security, and lives our troops in the middle east, and our health, and our economy).