FISA court rules NSA can resume bulk data collection
1–10 of 157 posts
Re: FISA court rules NSA can resume bulk data collection
#2One thing I don't understand about the updates to the law governing the FISA court:
How would there be any challenge to its rulings? Without a challenge, how would it be appealed to SCOTUS? Without a public appeal, how would the legal community be able to debate the merits of different cases as they do with other constitutional law issues?
It is like if the FBI was doing the bulk collection but never using the data to prosecute anyone: there isn't any place for the exclusionary rule* to restrain the prosecution.
* this is a good intro for the unfamiliar: http://lawcomic.net/guide/?p=1585
Re: FISA court rules NSA can resume bulk data collection
#3I don't understand how the FISA court, created by Congress outside the bounds of the appointment clause, for the specific task of approving or rejecting surveillance warrants, can so casually set aside the rulings of an actual court.
I mean, this is really simple stuff - like Marbury vs. Madison simple.
Isn't this precisely what the Church committee (out of which FISA grew) intended to prevent?
edit: Clarified first paragraph
Re: FISA court rules NSA can resume bulk data collection
#4I don't understand how the FISA court, created by Congress outside the bounds of the appointment clause, for the specific task of approving or rejecting surveillance warrants, can so casually set aside the rulings of an actual court. I mean, this is really simple stuff - like Marbury vs. Madison simple. Isn't this precisely what the Church committee (out of which FISA grew) intended to prevent? edit: Clarified first…
The constitution only mandates to establish a single supreme court, all federal courts were established by acts of congress.
Re: FISA court rules NSA can resume bulk data collection
#5I don't understand how the FISA court, created by Congress outside the bounds of the appointment clause, for the specific task of approving or rejecting surveillance warrants, can so casually set aside the rulings of an actual court. I mean, this is really simple stuff - like Marbury vs. Madison simple. Isn't this precisely what the Church committee (out of which FISA grew) intended to prevent? edit: Clarified first…
The federal appellate courts other than the fed circuit have regional jurisdiction. Their decisions are not binding authority on courts outside their own regions.
Re: FISA court rules NSA can resume bulk data collection
#6I worry sometimes when I hear people say things like "What is the point, as soon as we overcome something or strike a victory, the other side starts looking for ways to undermine or overcome it"
That is true, but it's almost the universal constant in life. The fight for good is never won... it's a continual struggle, a process- not fixed condition to be achieved.
Re: FISA court rules NSA can resume bulk data collection
#7I don't understand how the FISA court, created by Congress outside the bounds of the appointment clause, for the specific task of approving or rejecting surveillance warrants, can so casually set aside the rulings of an actual court. I mean, this is really simple stuff - like Marbury vs. Madison simple. Isn't this precisely what the Church committee (out of which FISA grew) intended to prevent? edit: Clarified first…
Did you read the opinion linked in the article? https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/2124483-br-15-75-mis...
The actual arguments start from 10 and go to 12. The quote about Second Court not being binding on them is from page 14, and some problems they had with the Second Court's analysis are on page 16, including pointing out that some of the claims of the Second Court are no longer true after the Freedom Act was passed.
Re: FISA court rules NSA can resume bulk data collection
#8One thing I don't understand about the updates to the law governing the FISA court: How would there be any challenge to its rulings? Without a challenge, how would it be appealed to SCOTUS? Without a public appeal, how would the legal community be able to debate the merits of different cases as they do with other constitutional law issues? It is like if the FBI was doing the bulk collection but never using the data t…
From the article:
>The surveillance court is subject to review by its own appeals panel, the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court of Review. Both the Second Circuit and the surveillance review court are in turn subject to the Supreme Court, which resolves conflicts between appeals courts.
Re: FISA court rules NSA can resume bulk data collection
#9Just a reminder about FISA's historical performance:
> Between 2001 and 2012, the FISA judges approved 20,909 surveillance and property search warrants - an average of 33 a week. During that 12-year period, the judges denied just 10 applications. Prosecutors withdrew another 26 applications.
> From 2007 to 2012, FISA judges also approved 532 "business record" warrant applications, the category used in the order that directed Verizon to release metadata on all phone calls inside the United States. No business record warrants were rejected.
and, on the judges perception of themselves:
> Walton, the senior judge on FISA, declined to be interviewed. In a statement, he said: "The perception that the court is a rubber stamp is absolutely false. There is a rigorous review process of applications submitted by the executive branch, spearheaded initially by five judicial branch lawyers who are national security experts, and then by the judges, to ensure that the court's authorizations comport with what the applicable statutes authorize."
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/21/us-usa-security-fi...
Re: FISA court rules NSA can resume bulk data collection
#10Oh surprise, secret court rules in favor of continuing secret laws to assist in secret data collection.
American Justice is a farce, illegitimate, and to be utterly ignored.