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An argument for open global immigration

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Re: An argument for open global immigration

#4
post #3

Lets me guess - it's really really good for all the poor people from impoverished, war-stricken countries? Or if you want a daily dose of extreme left-wing nonsense, subscribe to The Guardian or your country's equivalent.

> it's really really good for all the poor people from impoverished, war-stricken countries?

What part of this argument do you disagree with, and why?

Re: An argument for open global immigration

#5
> So accustomed are we to this game of geographical roulette that we have been blinded to the fact that it’s morally indefensible to divide the people on Earth into rich and poor, advantaged and disadvantaged, victims and survivors according to a criterion that is largely arbitrary and completely out of their control.

This is a weak argument. We do this for wealth in general: the mechanism is called inheritance. Of course, the author does not want to make this argument directly, because doing so would actually make the counterarguments more obvious, so the focus is instead based on emotion.

The second problem with the "free migration solves everything" hypothesis is that the wealth and health of a nation exist as a direct consequence of the existence of the barriers, both political and cultural, rather then some arbitrary geographic accident. Moving people from poor to rich nations does not do anything to help make the poor nations less poor; it only risks the problems coming over with the people.

Re: An argument for open global immigration

#6
Very good article. His argument definitely makes sense on an individual level. When I was in living in France, I wondered why it was impossible for me to buy a house and live there permanently. It was only because of artificial borders. It didn't make sense.

However, on a population wide basis, it is a different story. The article uses refugees and oppressive governments (exceptions to the rule) in order to make his argument. A tactic I distrust. He does make a good point about the EU, although I think the jury is still out on that one.

I believe we should have more immigration in the US. However, we limit immigration for a reason. And the reason is too many people at once burden the infrastructure. We can only build so many freeways, schools, and hospitals at once. So, a large influx of immigrants will cause traffic, crowded classrooms, and long waits in the emergency rooms. Anyone who lives in LA can tell you this is the case since California has had a rapid population primarily driven by immigrants.

Re: An argument for open global immigration

#7
post #4
post #3

Lets me guess - it's really really good for all the poor people from impoverished, war-stricken countries? Or if you want a daily dose of extreme left-wing nonsense, subscribe to The Guardian or your country's equivalent.

> it's really really good for all the poor people from impoverished, war-stricken countries? What part of this argument do you disagree with, and why?

It's the equivelent of robbing someone and giving that to charity. Consider is you moved 100,000,000 poor people without English skills into the US just how much chaos that would creat. Now reolise there are several times that many people who would like to live in the US. As a general rule if something is significantly worse for group A and better for group B, but group A makes the choice your argument falls on deaf ears.

Anyway, the other far more obvious solution is to move manufacturing to war torn areas. A billion dollars can creat a lot of jobs, and with reinvestment things can quickly snowball. Sure, setting up sweat shops is not going to give you the same kind of feel good boost, but poverty breeds corruption which breeds poverty.

Re: An argument for open global immigration

#8
I have been thinking about this a lot since living in what was then still the Third World (Taiwan, with visits to Hong Kong and to China when China was still very poor) in the 1980s. Today, Taiwan is wealthy, and is on track to be one of the richest countries in the world by 2050.[1] Taiwan is far from having open immigration so far, but it has taken in tens of thousands of guest workers from other, poorer countries in Asia, and is a bit unusual in having a big phenomenon of "foreign brides."[2] Free movement of people into Taiwan doesn't yet match the former rather vigorous movement of people out of Taiwan into the United States, but it is increasing, and all around the world the countries that are especially welcoming to immigrants are largely also countries that gain in prosperity over time.

As the article correctly points out, just more than a century ago in the United States, many people worried that HUGE rates of immigration from non-English-speaking countries would be dangerous to this country. They were wrong. Both my maternal grandparents were born in the United States, but their schooling was conducted entirely in the German language. My paternal grandmother was also born in the United States, and attended school only in English, but she attended church services in the Norwegian language and spoke Norwegian at home. Even the descendants of languages less closely cognate to English than those have grown up to be English-speakers just like me. This is not a problem. The strength of the United States (as the article points out) was established in the era when the United States had essentially no restrictions on immigration. I wouldn't mind bringing back those days. If other countries didn't try the same policy, the United States would just grow faster at their expense.

[1] http://www.cnbc.com/id/48686889

[2] http://articles.latimes.com/2003/jun/15/news/adfg-brides15

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB100014240527023041980045751712...

Re: An argument for open global immigration

#9
post #7
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's really really good for all the poor people from impoverished, war-stricken countries? What part of this argument do you disagree with, and why?

It's the equivelent of robbing someone and giving that to charity. Consider is you moved 100,000,000 poor people without English skills into the US just how much chaos that would creat. Now reolise there are several times that many people who would like to live in the US. As a general rule if something is significantly worse for group A and better for group B, but group A makes the choice your argument falls on deaf…

> Consider is you moved 100,000,000 poor people without English skills into the US just how much chaos that would creat.

From the point of view of the Native Americans, that's roughly what happened already. Only thing different is language this time around, not that all of the original immigrants into America spoke English, and not that all of the current people there do.

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