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Systemd redux: The end of Linux

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Re: Systemd redux: The end of Linux

#2
One thing I've realized about the Linux community through all this systemd flame warring is how unbelievably conservative a large subsection of it is. There's this huge so-called "neckbeard" continent that views anything architecturally beyond the 1980s as a huge affront to Unix.

IMHO I kind of shrug at this, since Unix was never really all that great to begin with. Unix won because the only commercially viable and well supported alternative was Windows, an OS that was (and in many ways still is) significantly worse especially for server and embedded applications. Everyone rallied around Unix and especially free/open Unix as an alternative, and so here we are.

It's also tough to compete with free, and Unix OSes got a huge boost from both Linux and the various free flavors of BSD. Yet that boost came at the expense of things like BeOS, Plan9, original NeXT, and the OS I still feel is hiding behind the JVM ... which for their day represented fresh ideas that might have gone somewhere.

Ultimately I think the existing Unix paradigm is going to be killed by Docker and mobile OSes that containerize in similar ways, and I'm not sure this is a step forward. It escapes much of the ugliness and the poor permission model of Unix, but it does so by handing virtually everything to the app. Docker containers (and mobile apps) can be thought of as something almost akin to giant statically linked binaries. We're getting more monolithic and coarse-grained.

Re: Systemd redux: The end of Linux

#4
It has been said before, but it deserves mention, there are alternatives to Systemd out there, like OpenRC which has been around for a while, and other, newer projects like Uselessd.

Of course, whether those other options will be as well supported and developed as systemd remains to be seen.

Re: Systemd redux: The end of Linux

#5
post #2

One thing I've realized about the Linux community through all this systemd flame warring is how unbelievably conservative a large subsection of it is. There's this huge so-called "neckbeard" continent that views anything architecturally beyond the 1980s as a huge affront to Unix. IMHO I kind of shrug at this, since Unix was never really all that great to begin with. Unix won because the only commercially viable and w…

> We're getting more monolithic and coarse-grained.

At the same time we are pushing more heterogenous software stacks to production and configuring more specific dependencies for our applications.

It almost seems like you're using cross-platform as a pejorative. ;)

Re: Systemd redux: The end of Linux

#6
post #2

One thing I've realized about the Linux community through all this systemd flame warring is how unbelievably conservative a large subsection of it is. There's this huge so-called "neckbeard" continent that views anything architecturally beyond the 1980s as a huge affront to Unix. IMHO I kind of shrug at this, since Unix was never really all that great to begin with. Unix won because the only commercially viable and w…

People who aren't extremely familiar with how the Linux init system works and whose job doesn't include keeping the servers stable don't see why the neckbeards are up in arms about systemd, but there's good reason. Many peoples' jobs depends on making sure the servers are working, and knowing how the servers work is a big part of their job (and sanity). In its current incarnation, systemd changes the fundamentals of how servers work without much increase in features - large risk and little reward.

Re: Systemd redux: The end of Linux

#7
Everything I read about SystemD is negative. Negative on the technology, negative on the people who created it. Nothing positive.

How is it that SystemD is about to dominate the market? Who is driving SystemD adoption, and why?

Re: Systemd redux: The end of Linux

#8
post #3

Can someone put in Layman's terms what the change entails and why it would be the end of Linux?

I think he means, "the end of Linux as we know it", but that doesn't have the hyperbolic ring of the current title.

Re: Systemd redux: The end of Linux

#9
post #3

Can someone put in Layman's terms what the change entails and why it would be the end of Linux?

It's not the end of Linux. It's the final death of the idea that Linux should just idly continue to act like a clone of some vague Unix of old because it was better when men were men and their computers had obscure RISC processors with billions of registers.

Linux hasn't really been that way for an incredibly long time, but a large proportion of the userbase still cling to this notion, some for ideological reasons, and some out of sentimentality.

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