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Ebola: Experimental drug ZMapp is '100% effective' in animal trials

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Ebola: Experimental drug ZMapp is '100% effective' in animal trials

#2

Post by trhway »

why we still test effectiveness on animals when there are several thousands of people who has no downside and only upside for the drug to be tested on them? Ethics? It would be a strange ethics that had worked only until an American needed the cure. Something isn't right that this drug got out of shadow only when there was a need to cure an American. I mean, of course, thanks God, that i have real chance of soon becoming an American too :)

Re: Ebola: Experimental drug ZMapp is '100% effective' in animal trials

#3

Post by lauraura »

trhway wrote: post #2

why we still test effectiveness on animals when there are several thousands of people who has no downside and only upside for the drug to be tested on them? Ethics? It would be a strange ethics that had worked only until an American needed the cure. Something isn't right that this drug got out of shadow only when there was a need to cure an American. I mean, of course, thanks God, that i have real chance of soon beco…

"And two out of seven people given the drug, have later died from the disease."

Sounds like they're already doing precisely that.

Re: Ebola: Experimental drug ZMapp is '100% effective' in animal trials

#4

Post by hdevalence »

trhway wrote: post #2

why we still test effectiveness on animals when there are several thousands of people who has no downside and only upside for the drug to be tested on them? Ethics? It would be a strange ethics that had worked only until an American needed the cure. Something isn't right that this drug got out of shadow only when there was a need to cure an American. I mean, of course, thanks God, that i have real chance of soon beco…

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/08/13/world/africa/ebola.html

The first four paragraphs describe what happened: different decisions were made by different doctors, and the drug did not "get out of the shadow only when there was a need to cure an American".

Re: Ebola: Experimental drug ZMapp is '100% effective' in animal trials

#5

Post by Crito »

trhway wrote: post #2

why we still test effectiveness on animals when there are several thousands of people who has no downside and only upside for the drug to be tested on them? Ethics? It would be a strange ethics that had worked only until an American needed the cure. Something isn't right that this drug got out of shadow only when there was a need to cure an American. I mean, of course, thanks God, that i have real chance of soon beco…

http://scientiasalon.wordpress.com/2014/08/14/on-the-science... (related HN discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8189528)

The second paragraph does a good job of summing up ethical concerns related to this particular outbreak (standard ethical concerns also apply):

"The first two patients to be treated were Americans. Prior to this came the old (and historically justified) fear of testing potentially dangerous new treatments on vulnerable populations in developing countries rather than on privileged first world patients. The first ever treatment was not given to an African doctor because of this concern [1]. After Westerners were treated, complaints rose about giving infected Westerners access to a new drug while infected Africans went without. These two concerns are obviously mutually exclusive. People are concerned, they are just not sure about what, sometimes even voicing both concerns in the same article [2]."

Re: Ebola: Experimental drug ZMapp is '100% effective' in animal trials

#6

Post by trhway »

hdevalence wrote: post #4
trhway wrote: post #2

why we still test effectiveness on animals when there are several thousands of people who has no downside and only upside for the drug to be tested on them? Ethics? It would be a strange ethics that had worked only until an American needed the cure. Something isn't right that this drug got out of shadow only when there was a need to cure an American. I mean, of course, thanks God, that i have real chance of soon beco…

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/08/13/world/africa/ebola.html The first four paragraphs describe what happened: different decisions were made by different doctors, and the drug did not "get out of the shadow only when there was a need to cure an American".

>different decisions were made by different doctors

that is exactly my point. It is a discernible trait of the system level behavior with many different people involved.

Re: Ebola: Experimental drug ZMapp is '100% effective' in animal trials

#8

Post by state »

I'm surprised that so much of the coverage of ZMapp doesn't include the fact that the drug is produced in tobacco plants.

To me, this is the single most interesting and impressive fact. It's also likely the main reason why "the limited supplies will not help the 20,000 people predicted to be infected during the outbreak in West Africa." Scaling production of antibodies grown in plants can't possibly be straightforward.

Re: Ebola: Experimental drug ZMapp is '100% effective' in animal trials

#10

Post by skosch »

kqr2 wrote: post #7

In this NYT article: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/30/world/africa/study-says-zm... It mentions that all 3 control group animals died. Does anyone know why the control group is so small compared to the test group of 18?

I would hazard a guess that we know Ebola to be pretty close to 100% lethal, and if you know that three out of three control animals died, then the virus is "working" and there's no need to sacrifice many more animals.
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