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Pissed off about functional programming (2005)

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Re: Pissed off about functional programming (2005)

#4

Post by tel »

While knowledgable sounding... I kind of feel like he was missing out on what pure FP can and does achieve. There were many statements to the effect of "don't pretend X is Y because while Y is obviously great, it's also true that any lang which does Y could not operate (here's an example in Perl)".

I reject that last bit, that these things Y lead to a useless language though I do think the proof was far from the pudding 9 years ago.

Re: Pissed off about functional programming (2005)

#5

Post by mpweiher »

tel wrote: post #4

While knowledgable sounding... I kind of feel like he was missing out on what pure FP can and does achieve. There were many statements to the effect of "don't pretend X is Y because while Y is obviously great, it's also true that any lang which does Y could not operate (here's an example in Perl)". I reject that last bit, that these things Y lead to a useless language though I do think the proof was far from the pudd…

"I kind of feel like he was missing out on what pure FP can and does achieve."

So what exactly was he missing? When I was programming in FP languages, the process didn't seem all that different from other languages, except generally more cumbersome.

Re: Pissed off about functional programming (2005)

#6

Post by efnx »

I think his argument held more weight in 2005. Even though Haskell at that point was 10 years old I dont think it was quite the poster child of FP it is today.

It's my guess that he's talking about non-pure FPLs like Lisps and MLs, which today don't seem nearly as FP as Haskell, Idris, Agda, Coq - the langs that are now carrying the FP torch.

Re: Pissed off about functional programming (2005)

#8

Post by zaptheimpaler »

judk wrote: post #3

I assume this post is here to show us that the stupid argumentation about FP vs OOP vs DWIM have been going in circles forever and we should just stop and get back to work.

I was looking for some technical discussion to half read through and procrastinate, but I found wisdom instead.

Re: Pissed off about functional programming (2005)

#9

Post by radmuzom »

mpweiher wrote: post #5
tel wrote: post #4

While knowledgable sounding... I kind of feel like he was missing out on what pure FP can and does achieve. There were many statements to the effect of "don't pretend X is Y because while Y is obviously great, it's also true that any lang which does Y could not operate (here's an example in Perl)". I reject that last bit, that these things Y lead to a useless language though I do think the proof was far from the pudd…

"I kind of feel like he was missing out on what pure FP can and does achieve." So what exactly was he missing? When I was programming in FP languages, the process didn't seem all that different from other languages, except generally more cumbersome.

"except generally more cumbersome".

So true. Especially if the domain is not "naturally" functional - say an HTML5 game. I am sure brilliant programmers will come up with a functional model even in such cases, but I don't think that is how most people would think. I am more fond of languages like JavaScript, which has features associated with functional programming (higher-order functions, closures) but feels as natural to me as C.

Re: Pissed off about functional programming (2005)

#10

Post by acjohnson55 »

radmuzom wrote: post #9
mpweiher wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I kind of feel like he was missing out on what pure FP can and does achieve." So what exactly was he missing? When I was programming in FP languages, the process didn't seem all that different from other languages, except generally more cumbersome.

"except generally more cumbersome". So true. Especially if the domain is not "naturally" functional - say an HTML5 game. I am sure brilliant programmers will come up with a functional model even in such cases, but I don't think that is how most people would think. I am more fond of languages like JavaScript, which has features associated with functional programming (higher-order functions, closures) but feels as natu…

You should look into http://elm-lang.org/. A lot of the examples are specifically for web games. I haven't used it myself, but from research I did into it months ago, I remain very intrigued.
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