Germany turns up pressure in suspected US spy case
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Germany turns up pressure in suspected US spy case
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Re: Germany turns up pressure in suspected US spy case
#2Or it's just another political statement to gain/retain voter support, while everything (US-german collaboration regarding mass surveillance) will go on as before.
Seriously, if Germany wants to make a statement, it can start by banning all NSA listening stations on German soil.
Re: Germany turns up pressure in suspected US spy case
#3The conspiracy theorist in me tells me that this might be a staged drama by US-German authorities to instill confidence in German citizens. Or may be to deceive Russia.
Re: Germany turns up pressure in suspected US spy case
#4Or it's just another political statement to gain/retain voter support, while everything (US-german collaboration regarding mass surveillance) will go on as before. Seriously, if Germany wants to make a statement, it can start by banning all NSA listening stations on German soil.
But then where would we get most of our sigint from, if not from the NSA? Its not like we have those capabilities ourselves. But I agree that Germany is starting to look a little.... foolish, but there is no easy way out for us. We need the USA more than they need us.
Re: Germany turns up pressure in suspected US spy case
#5Or it's just another political statement to gain/retain voter support, while everything (US-german collaboration regarding mass surveillance) will go on as before. Seriously, if Germany wants to make a statement, it can start by banning all NSA listening stations on German soil.
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Re: Germany turns up pressure in suspected US spy case
#6Or it's just another political statement to gain/retain voter support, while everything (US-german collaboration regarding mass surveillance) will go on as before. Seriously, if Germany wants to make a statement, it can start by banning all NSA listening stations on German soil.
But then where would we get most of our sigint from, if not from the NSA? Its not like we have those capabilities ourselves. But I agree that Germany is starting to look a little.... foolish, but there is no easy way out for us. We need the USA more than they need us.
Apparently, most of the data NSA collects is useless. And even with that data, other intelligence agencies (read: other countries') are often better informed than the Americans.
Having the most amount of data is not the same has having the best intelligence agency. How can data be useful if you don't know what it's for?
German intelligence is likely more sophisticated than American intelligence.[0] Of course, as with most European intelligence agencies, they do have several centuries of advantage. It took CIA quite a while to figure out not see world politics in a pure East vs West picture. You cannot build that amount of experience overnight.
Do you think the KGB outmanoeuvred the CIA at every turn because of a bigger budget or lack of restrictions? Nay, KGB relied heavily on 600 years of espionage experience. Experience that used to mean the life or death of several European states.
Europe may have granted their former colonies independence, but the experience gathered in our years as masters have not been for naught. It is not without reason France knows central Africa like its backhand.
USA may have more data, because they have the technical knowhow and capability. But they still lack the experience. The relationships between European and American intelligence agencies are certainly mutually beneficial.
CIA's best kept secret is how little they know.
[0] Of course, there will often be the occasional embarrassing story that would dispute this claim. But don't let these few stories fool you.
Re: Germany turns up pressure in suspected US spy case
#7The conspiracy theorist in me tells me that this might be a staged drama by US-German authorities to instill confidence in German citizens. Or may be to deceive Russia.
I doubt this is going to instill confidence. On the contrary, if this goes on, it could damage the German government and boost fringe parties.
Re: Germany turns up pressure in suspected US spy case
#8Earlier quoted context omitted.
But then where would we get most of our sigint from, if not from the NSA? Its not like we have those capabilities ourselves. But I agree that Germany is starting to look a little.... foolish, but there is no easy way out for us. We need the USA more than they need us.
Apparently, most of the data NSA collects is useless. And even with that data, other intelligence agencies (read: other countries') are often better informed than the Americans. Having the most amount of data is not the same has having the best intelligence agency. How can data be useful if you don't know what it's for? German intelligence is likely more sophisticated than American intelligence.[0] Of course, as with…
>German intelligence is likely more sophisticated than American intelligence.
Doubtful. German intelligence is probably as effective as Wally from Dilbert. However, shelving TTIP and/or expelling the US ambassador would make a statement.
And of course - in the long run - not sitting on our asses but building and effective intelligence service ourselves.
Re: Germany turns up pressure in suspected US spy case
#9The conspiracy theorist in me tells me that this might be a staged drama by US-German authorities to instill confidence in German citizens. Or may be to deceive Russia.
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
Re: Germany turns up pressure in suspected US spy case
#10Or it's just another political statement to gain/retain voter support, while everything (US-german collaboration regarding mass surveillance) will go on as before. Seriously, if Germany wants to make a statement, it can start by banning all NSA listening stations on German soil.
But then where would we get most of our sigint from, if not from the NSA? Its not like we have those capabilities ourselves. But I agree that Germany is starting to look a little.... foolish, but there is no easy way out for us. We need the USA more than they need us.
We do have SIGINT capabilities. I did my compulsary military service in one of those installations.
Although what I experienced there was... laughable.