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Mathematicians are chronically lost and confused

j2kun.svbtle.com

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Re: Mathematicians are chronically lost and confused

#2
I highly recommend reading this. I didn't agree 100% with everything, and you probably won't either, but it's an excellent insight into what learning and doing math is about, and what it's like.

I'd love to read alternate viewpoints, but this is an excellent read.

Re: Mathematicians are chronically lost and confused

#4
post #3

I think this is a good read, although I don't agree with all of it - I'm of the mind that there is immense value in being able to figure out difficult proofs. The process develops your logical ability.

I'm of the mind that there is immense value in being able to figure out difficult proofs.

Absolutely.

However, the rabbit hole is very deep. Many papers make leaps from one sentence to the next that, if you're not familiar with the field, can take a couple days to figure out. Even then, real world proofs are informal and therefore not air-tight. They're close enough, almost always, but there's a reason why a mathematical proof isn't considered valid unless it's lived for two years under peer scrutiny.

One could drill down to formal proof in the Godelian sense, in which proofs are mere typography and can be checked mechanically, but that's not how most of real mathematics is done and, practically speaking, most of it can't be done that way and remain useful to humans (like assembly language, it's too low-level for most applications).

Re: Mathematicians are chronically lost and confused

#5
This misses the dangerous part, which is mathematicians in groups can confuse each other into accepting ideas which are basically nonsensical, especially if the counter argument relies on some obvious but intuitive observation of reality but cannot be easily formalised within their chosen framework of the moment.

As a consequence of this it wouldn't surprise me if the overwhelming majority of maths was actually incoherent nonsense and that the people that understood this thought they were just very confused due to being shouted down all the time, when the really confused people are the ones oblivious to their own situation.

Re: Mathematicians are chronically lost and confused

#6
post #3

I think this is a good read, although I don't agree with all of it - I'm of the mind that there is immense value in being able to figure out difficult proofs. The process develops your logical ability.

I'd agree that there is a place for complicated detail work in mathematics, but I don't think that's really what mathematics is about.

It's more about finding good conjectures, and realizing which theorems and lemmas are actually worth proving, because they say something interesting about the topic.

By analogy, it's certainly important to understand complex grammar, have a large vocabulary, etc in order to be a writer, and develop a good sense of word choice, but that's not really what writing is about; writing is fundamentally about the process by which we tell a story using these tools.

Re: Mathematicians are chronically lost and confused

#7
I really enjoyed this because it captures so much of the frustration that felt early in my programming career - especially in college when I had classmates several years my junior who were (as far as I could tell) mathematics and programming wunderkinds. I also think that this is the sort of rhetoric that should be used to begin teaching children basic mathematics and more advanced concepts as well, because I still recall many of my classmates in elementary and even highschool who simply felt like failures or that they weren't smart enough to understand things because they didn't "get" it the first, or fourth, or fiftyth time.

Re: Mathematicians are chronically lost and confused

#8
post #5

This misses the dangerous part, which is mathematicians in groups can confuse each other into accepting ideas which are basically nonsensical, especially if the counter argument relies on some obvious but intuitive observation of reality but cannot be easily formalised within their chosen framework of the moment. As a consequence of this it wouldn't surprise me if the overwhelming majority of maths was actually incoh…

I'd be a lot more worried about the danger you mention if you could give even one example of that happening, ever. What ideas are mathematicians confusing each other into accepting that are basically nonsensical?

Re: Mathematicians are chronically lost and confused

#9
post #5

This misses the dangerous part, which is mathematicians in groups can confuse each other into accepting ideas which are basically nonsensical, especially if the counter argument relies on some obvious but intuitive observation of reality but cannot be easily formalised within their chosen framework of the moment. As a consequence of this it wouldn't surprise me if the overwhelming majority of maths was actually incoh…

I'd be a lot more worried about the danger you mention if you could give even one example of that happening, ever. What ideas are mathematicians confusing each other into accepting that are basically nonsensical?

Cantor's conception of transfinite numbers is the one that I think has done most damage.
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