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The Myth of Human Progress and the Collapse of Complex Societies

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Re: The Myth of Human Progress and the Collapse of Complex Societies

#3
Wow.

I kind of agree - but really let's say we listen to our inner doubts, we mutiny and throw Ahab overboard, we are still on a whaler in the middle of the ocean. Now what?

Our (global?) society is on course for destruction on the ocean - but that course is also sailing use closer to the promised land. Every innovation, every step closer to the singularity requires us to move faster, land more sure-footedly. Yes we could balls it all up, start a mindless war that tips the balance, refuse to cooperate in trade or keep the next Einstein in a poverty stricken barro to die of diseases we cure with a single needle.

but then we could not - we could survive on the knife edge - learn how to sail better, close to the wind.

Destruction is not inevitable - it is just somewhere between likely and probable. All the more reason not to give into dsspair - not let Ahabs obsessions distract him from the survival of the ship, but for us to watch and honestly discuss the ships course - and find a way for the whole world to choose together our next course.

(yeah a little too flowery language - sorry. it's late)

Re: The Myth of Human Progress and the Collapse of Complex Societies

#5

Wow. I kind of agree - but really let's say we listen to our inner doubts, we mutiny and throw Ahab overboard, we are still on a whaler in the middle of the ocean. Now what? Our (global?) society is on course for destruction on the ocean - but that course is also sailing use closer to the promised land. Every innovation, every step closer to the singularity requires us to move faster, land more sure-footedly. Yes we…

i dig this.

the author laments the hubris and arrogance present in all societies, as if these exaggerations were bugs, and not features.

the arrogance of the leaders and the peddling of hope are there because we are all afraid, and nobody wants to admit it. he talks about the chasm of human reality and how you get burned if you get closed to it, and i agree - it makes sense. i came out burned. i was mad at the world for a while and wanted to tear the whole thing down, but i went back for a closer look because i figured there must have been something i'm missing. there is beauty at the bottom of it, and we can get through it.

there is still new land to be explored - we just can't get there by walking or sailing. the ENTIRE GALAXY awaits us if we can just get off this damned rock. let's peddle all the hope we need and beat our chests all day long; let's spread the gospel to heathen civilizations on other planets if that's what it takes for us to move out of this place and into another one. maybe we're just delaying the inevitable and the end of the galactic civilization will be that much more spectacular when it comes, but it's not as if we can go back in time to change all the "best guesses" our world was built on and the gentle lies that sustain it.

we are now heathens living on easter island. we know our civilization is built on a lie. we can either stop telling that lie and kill each other out of anger over mistakes our ancestors made doing the best they could, or we could all keep telling the lie, keep playing our assigned parts with a wink and a nod, and put fewer resources into enforcing what everybody knows is a sham story, and devote all our efforts into finding the new land we think might be out there over the great waters.

the only way through is forward. the only way out is up.

Re: The Myth of Human Progress and the Collapse of Complex Societies

#6

Wow. I kind of agree - but really let's say we listen to our inner doubts, we mutiny and throw Ahab overboard, we are still on a whaler in the middle of the ocean. Now what? Our (global?) society is on course for destruction on the ocean - but that course is also sailing use closer to the promised land. Every innovation, every step closer to the singularity requires us to move faster, land more sure-footedly. Yes we…

Don't apologize, the flowery language was quite refreshing on a site like this, programmers are usually really poor expositors and can really make you forget how enjoyable good writing is. On this site, you usually only get conciseness without elegance or verbosity without elegance, basically rarely any elegance!

Re: The Myth of Human Progress and the Collapse of Complex Societies

#7

Wow. I kind of agree - but really let's say we listen to our inner doubts, we mutiny and throw Ahab overboard, we are still on a whaler in the middle of the ocean. Now what? Our (global?) society is on course for destruction on the ocean - but that course is also sailing use closer to the promised land. Every innovation, every step closer to the singularity requires us to move faster, land more sure-footedly. Yes we…

i dig this. the author laments the hubris and arrogance present in all societies, as if these exaggerations were bugs, and not features. the arrogance of the leaders and the peddling of hope are there because we are all afraid, and nobody wants to admit it. he talks about the chasm of human reality and how you get burned if you get closed to it, and i agree - it makes sense. i came out burned. i was mad at the world…

> the only way through is forward. the only way out is up.

And that is going in the quote archive. Nice :)

Re: The Myth of Human Progress and the Collapse of Complex Societies

#9

Wow. I kind of agree - but really let's say we listen to our inner doubts, we mutiny and throw Ahab overboard, we are still on a whaler in the middle of the ocean. Now what? Our (global?) society is on course for destruction on the ocean - but that course is also sailing use closer to the promised land. Every innovation, every step closer to the singularity requires us to move faster, land more sure-footedly. Yes we…

i dig this. the author laments the hubris and arrogance present in all societies, as if these exaggerations were bugs, and not features. the arrogance of the leaders and the peddling of hope are there because we are all afraid, and nobody wants to admit it. he talks about the chasm of human reality and how you get burned if you get closed to it, and i agree - it makes sense. i came out burned. i was mad at the world…

This reminds me of the question of are we some of the last humans to exist (species ends on earth) or some of the first (great golden galactic future)

Either way we won't ever find out - so how we behave is really a matter of faith - not in God but in our descendants ability to keep going up.

I'm voting for optimisim :-)

Re: The Myth of Human Progress and the Collapse of Complex Societies

#10

Wow. I kind of agree - but really let's say we listen to our inner doubts, we mutiny and throw Ahab overboard, we are still on a whaler in the middle of the ocean. Now what? Our (global?) society is on course for destruction on the ocean - but that course is also sailing use closer to the promised land. Every innovation, every step closer to the singularity requires us to move faster, land more sure-footedly. Yes we…

i dig this. the author laments the hubris and arrogance present in all societies, as if these exaggerations were bugs, and not features. the arrogance of the leaders and the peddling of hope are there because we are all afraid, and nobody wants to admit it. he talks about the chasm of human reality and how you get burned if you get closed to it, and i agree - it makes sense. i came out burned. i was mad at the world…

"We must go forward, not backward. Upward, not forward. And always t..."

/watch?v=zGmfiKowrYU

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