Saab wins Brazil jets deal after NSA spying sours Boeing bid
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Re: Saab wins Brazil jets deal after NSA spying sours Boeing bid
#2I can't help but get the feeling, especially from the way things are cited in the article, that the NSA spying was not the cause of Boeing's bid souring, but rather that the decision was used as an opportunity to put some pressure on the NSA. Good on them either way. The economic impact is just one of the ways this program hurts Americans as well as foreign nationals.
Re: Saab wins Brazil jets deal after NSA spying sours Boeing bid
#3A while back I came across this wiki article which is relevant
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON#Examples_of_industrial_...
Re: Saab wins Brazil jets deal after NSA spying sours Boeing bid
#4Boeing builds spy satellites for the US gov and their "Boeing Defense, Space & Security" division is deeply embedded in the intelligence community.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/11/washington/11satellite.htm...
http://ctovision.com/2010/09/new-boeing-intelligence-collabo...
Re: Saab wins Brazil jets deal after NSA spying sours Boeing bid
#5Claiming that the NSA scandal is the primary reason for the Saab win is an overly US-centric view.
While there's evidence that Boeing's chances were hurt by the NSA revelations, it's not true that Boeing was a clear favourite. Both Saab and Dassault had presented strong bids and were considered serious contenders, particularly as both offered much higher industrial participation and technology sharing than Boeing and as such had the support of Brazil's aviation industry. That cannot be underestimated, and it's why Boeing was at a disadvantage even before the NSA story broke.
The Saab Gripen met Brazil's FX-2 requirements, it has a lower operating cost than the Rafale or Super Hornet, Saab has agreed to transfer a massive amount of technology and Sweden has committed to investigate a quid pro quo acquisition of Brazilian KC-390 tanker transports. Boeing could not match all that.
Re: Saab wins Brazil jets deal after NSA spying sours Boeing bid
#6Maybe Saab won because they had a better offer. And maybe Boing usually wins these deals because they have the backing of large intelligence agencies. Who knows.
Re: Saab wins Brazil jets deal after NSA spying sours Boeing bid
#7Claiming that the NSA scandal is the primary reason for the Saab win is an overly US-centric view. While there's evidence that Boeing's chances were hurt by the NSA revelations, it's not true that Boeing was a clear favourite. Both Saab and Dassault had presented strong bids and were considered serious contenders, particularly as both offered much higher industrial participation and technology sharing than Boeing and…
Claiming that the NSA scandal is the primary reason for the Saab win is an overly US-centric view.
From TFA: "Until earlier this year, Boeing's F/A-18 Super Hornet had been considered the front runner... "The NSA problem ruined it for the Americans," a Brazilian government source said on condition of anonymity."
Does it remain a "US-centric view" when Brazil is the party saying, "Because NSA"?
Re: Saab wins Brazil jets deal after NSA spying sours Boeing bid
#8The French bid was turned down by the President herself after major set backs in the current France-Brazil partnership building a nuclear submarine for the Brazilian Navy.
Not mentioned here is the fact that old conspiracy theories surrounding the explosion that destroyed the Alcantara launch pad and killed the cream of the crop of the Brazilian space program, have recently been resurrected and it's believed plausible by some members of the Brazilian government although not widely publicized. Some blame the French for possible sabotaging it.
Over the years the Brazilian secret service (ABIN), have arrested several French spies around Alcantara - the latest case was that a French spy posing as kitesurf instructor. Other cases include water buoys found at sea near the Air Base loaded with electronics, also blamed on the French.
EDIT: added a few sources (sorry portuguese only)
http://www1.folha.uol.com.br/fsp/poder/137424-suspeita-de-sa...
http://www.metro.org.br/jose_alves/os-cacas-militares-e-as-b...
http://jornalpequeno.com.br/2013/11/22/governo-confirma-cont...
http://www.planobrazil.com/dez-anos-depois-explosao-de-fogue...
Re: Saab wins Brazil jets deal after NSA spying sours Boeing bid
#9Claiming that the NSA scandal is the primary reason for the Saab win is an overly US-centric view. While there's evidence that Boeing's chances were hurt by the NSA revelations, it's not true that Boeing was a clear favourite. Both Saab and Dassault had presented strong bids and were considered serious contenders, particularly as both offered much higher industrial participation and technology sharing than Boeing and…
Claiming that the NSA scandal is the primary reason for the Saab win is an overly US-centric view. From TFA: "Until earlier this year, Boeing's F/A-18 Super Hornet had been considered the front runner... "The NSA problem ruined it for the Americans," a Brazilian government source said on condition of anonymity." Does it remain a "US-centric view" when Brazil is the party saying, "Because NSA"?
The article does not source the claim about the Super Hornet being the front-runner, although previous reports have claimed that Brazilian President Dilma Rousseff preferred the Super Hornet for political reasons.
The part of the sentence that's an actual quote doesn't contradict my post.
Re: Saab wins Brazil jets deal after NSA spying sours Boeing bid
#10Claiming that the NSA scandal is the primary reason for the Saab win is an overly US-centric view. While there's evidence that Boeing's chances were hurt by the NSA revelations, it's not true that Boeing was a clear favourite. Both Saab and Dassault had presented strong bids and were considered serious contenders, particularly as both offered much higher industrial participation and technology sharing than Boeing and…
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