Renault will remotely lock down electric cars
blogs.fsfe.org
Renault will remotely lock down electric cars
1–10 of 32 posts
Re: Renault will remotely lock down electric cars
#2This whole battery renting scheme is bad, that's pure greed.
I know it's more difficult (orders of magnitude harder) than in sw but we need new startups to emerge in the automobile industry, just like Tesla. I'm french and this is one of the things I worry the most because I think we're not a country where this is possible anymore, this is a shame.
Re: Renault will remotely lock down electric cars
#3TL;DR: Renault has a clause in the contract that allows them to remotely stop their EV from charging
This is an interesting issue but the article overstates the case. "... [electric cars] collect reams of data on how you use them, and send this data off to the manufacturer without your knowledge". Without your knowledge? Really?
EVs are very new technology and none of them have shown to be profitable without government support. Buyers have choices and making the trade-offs between vendors clear is always worthwhile, but this piece is not helping the debate.
Re: Renault will remotely lock down electric cars
#4This whole battery renting scheme is bad, that's pure greed. I know it's more difficult (orders of magnitude harder) than in sw but we need new startups to emerge in the automobile industry, just like Tesla. I'm french and this is one of the things I worry the most because I think we're not a country where this is possible anymore, this is a shame.
The remote disabling sounds bad, but from an economic perspective renting batteries could be good for consumers and manufacturers at the same time.
A lot of this battery stuff is very new at the moment. You look at, say, a Panasonic NCR18650 [1] and it's very affordable, but it loses 20% of its capacity after just 300 charge cycles. It depends on temprature, charge rate, depth of discharge and so on, so designers can trade off longevity for upfront cost. There are alternative battery chemistries that last longer - some manufacturers claim more than 10,000 charge cycles [2] but how do you test a manufacturer's claims that a battery will last 30 years without waiting until the technology is 30 years old? Or maybe the future is batteries getting swapped at change stations, Tesla style, so you'll end up with a different battery every day.
We consumers aren't equipped to evaluate the longevity claims of the manufacturers, so why should we take on the risk when that 30-year battery might break after 3 years? On the other hand if we pay by the month or by the mile, if it needs replacement after 3 years that's the manufacturer's problem.
In other words, renting gives the manufacturer an incentive not to cut corners, and to make sure their products are long-lasting and low maintenance, because the longer the product lasts the better the profit. Sure beats the printer ink economic model, where the manufacturers have an incentive to make cheap products that don't last long because selling more replacements means more profit.
[1] http://industrial.panasonic.com/www-data/pdf2/ACA4000/ACA400... [2] http://www.altairnano.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/60Ah-Da...
Re: Renault will remotely lock down electric cars
#5This whole battery renting scheme is bad, that's pure greed. I know it's more difficult (orders of magnitude harder) than in sw but we need new startups to emerge in the automobile industry, just like Tesla. I'm french and this is one of the things I worry the most because I think we're not a country where this is possible anymore, this is a shame.
This whole battery renting scheme is bad, that's pure greed.
The battery renting thing is great! The relatively short life of batteries and the price of replacing them is one of the biggest problems with electric cars. Renting means that isn't your problems anymore.
Re: Renault will remotely lock down electric cars
#6This whole battery renting scheme is bad, that's pure greed. I know it's more difficult (orders of magnitude harder) than in sw but we need new startups to emerge in the automobile industry, just like Tesla. I'm french and this is one of the things I worry the most because I think we're not a country where this is possible anymore, this is a shame.
The remote disabling sounds bad, but from an economic perspective renting batteries could be good for consumers and manufacturers at the same time. A lot of this battery stuff is very new at the moment. You look at, say, a Panasonic NCR18650 [1] and it's very affordable, but it loses 20% of its capacity after just 300 charge cycles. It depends on temprature, charge rate, depth of discharge and so on, so designers can…
But what if said manufacturer decide your car is not 'supported' anymore?
You may not even be allowed to turn to alternative battery suppliers, because it might be forbidden by contract. Their are some user protection laws in some countries (say, France), but it won't be the case everywhere.
Re: Renault will remotely lock down electric cars
#7This whole battery renting scheme is bad, that's pure greed. I know it's more difficult (orders of magnitude harder) than in sw but we need new startups to emerge in the automobile industry, just like Tesla. I'm french and this is one of the things I worry the most because I think we're not a country where this is possible anymore, this is a shame.
This whole battery renting scheme is bad, that's pure greed. The battery renting thing is great! The relatively short life of batteries and the price of replacing them is one of the biggest problems with electric cars. Renting means that isn't your problems anymore.
Renting means that isn't your problems anymore.
I wonder when did the companies became so generous to pick the tab for all their customers. Maybe if you are in the market for short duration it might work but I don't see it begin cheaper for the customer in long run.
Re: Renault will remotely lock down electric cars
#8Sadly this is a general trend though. In the past we used to buy things, like software. Now everything is subscription based and that sucks for consumers. Look at Billings (invoicing app) for example. It used to be reasonably priced as a download, now you have to buy a monthly subscription which ends up being much more expensive than before AND they can cut you off from your own data.
This SaaS trend is good for businesses and bad for consumers (there are advantages). It is even more evil in 'real life' as Renault is doing.
Re: Renault will remotely lock down electric cars
#9Earlier quoted context omitted.
The remote disabling sounds bad, but from an economic perspective renting batteries could be good for consumers and manufacturers at the same time. A lot of this battery stuff is very new at the moment. You look at, say, a Panasonic NCR18650 [1] and it's very affordable, but it loses 20% of its capacity after just 300 charge cycles. It depends on temprature, charge rate, depth of discharge and so on, so designers can…
But what if said manufacturer decide your car is not 'supported' anymore? You may not even be allowed to turn to alternative battery suppliers, because it might be forbidden by contract. Their are some user protection laws in some countries (say, France), but it won't be the case everywhere.
In Australia, that's called "third line forcing" and is forbidden by law. Surely the U.S. has the same sort of laws?
Re: Renault will remotely lock down electric cars
#10>We already knew that Tesla was doing this with its cars since the company’s very public spat with a journalist who reviewed one of their cars for the New York Times. Seeing the same thing in a mass market manufacturer like Renault makes clear just how dangerous this trend is.
Didn't know Tesla had a remote command to kill your car. This guy doesn't really know what he's talking about; Tesla has some kind of OnStar service going on but they have no way to physically turn your car off or have not been proven to be able to.