As an employee I work for a small software company developing a SaaS product, and I see a lot of opportunities to make this product much better. After all we use it on a daily basis and we’ve got plenty of experience with it. I am not talking here about incremental improvements in usability or coming up with some new cool features (although these too). There seems to be a better way to solve the same problem which the product already does by changing the product’s philosophy, its core principles and building new features on top of it. As you may guess this would require a major overhaul, or even more – complete rewrite. If this would be not enough to you, I am not satisfied with the current development platform and thinking about changing it.
I have been thinking really hard and evolving this idea for the last several months and very passionate about it. I haven’t noticed someone has already implemented it, but I’m sure, if done properly, it would become a hit.
Now, what should I do with my idea? Do I have to start working on a new product on my own, or should I go to my employer and convince him there’s a better way to make the same product? There are pros and cons going both ways. If I work on it on my own, I am sure it won’t be stolen and I will have freedom to implement it in the way I see it. But I will have to start a new company from scratch and attract customers one by one. If I negotiate with my employer, I will have access to the already existing resources and customers, but the tricky part to me is how to negotiate properly.
Can you please give some advice about what can I do in a situation like this?
Ask HN: start on my own or negotiate with the employer?
1–10 of 13 posts
Re: Ask HN: start on my own or negotiate with the employer?
#2Leaving the company to work on a competing product will sometimes violate any agreements you may have signed for this employer, so check those first.
Usually the barrier to doing a parallel rewrite is staffing. If the company barely has enough people now, sending people off on something else needs (in the management's view) a very good reason. So you have to show how time will be saved, at least medium-term.
Another potential barrier is testing. If your product has a lousy set of regression tests and unit tests, forget it; until more tests are written, a rewrite is far too risky. Basically, the test suite needs to prove what all the important current behaviors are, so that you can be very confident in replacing code.
Is there something wrong with the code base? Is it hard to maintain? You'll probably have more success proposing changes if this is true. For example, you can pull up the last 20 bugs/enhancements, and explain to your management exactly where all the time was spent on them; then show how your revised design would have made those changes more efficient. If you have access to the time it takes customers to do things, you could have similar analysis; show how awkward or clunky something currently is for them, and how much better it would be if it worked differently.
Re: Ask HN: start on my own or negotiate with the employer?
#3Starting a closely related competing product is not something that can be reasonably considered ethical. Many contracts prevent you from doing that. Just because you're not in such a contract, doesn't make it right, though. I would suggest talking to your employer and remaining on good terms whether or not you decide to part ways.
Re: Ask HN: start on my own or negotiate with the employer?
#4Dont start working on a competing product while still at your current employer. You probably have an employment contract that gives them the right to your work. (This is different from working on something totally unrelated.)
How you approach your employer depends greatly on the corporate culture and your immediate supervisor and his/her boss. If no one else has side projects or if every minute has to be accounted for in reports or timesheets, your chances are not good. If the culture is a little more open and you have a good relationship with your boss, you could try for 20% time to explore your ideas.
I am guessing you are young. It takes a while to build up corporate political savvy. I tried just such a thing early in my career and was promptly fired. If you have a colleague with more experience in the company's political arena, have a beer and talk about your thoughts on changes, but not about going out on your own.
I am a strong believer in the future of enterprise SaaS, but such a startup needs much more that the YC level of support. Make a prototype for sure, but be prepared to raise 6 and 7 figures to transition to profitability.
Re: Ask HN: start on my own or negotiate with the employer?
#5Violating your non-compete will at least damage your professional reputation and at most get you sued.
If you are passionate about the product and industry you should recognize the awesome opportunity your employer is giving you even if you are unhappy with the progress.
Hone your skills on refactoring code and dealing with office politics while collecting a paycheck.
If you do valuable work you do have capital to spend on fixing company problems you see. Learn how to use it, you will need this skill until the day you are paying payroll for your own employees.
Re: Ask HN: start on my own or negotiate with the employer?
#6I would start my own! You have said "but I’m sure, if done properly, it would become a hit" if so, clients will go hundred by hundred.
But do you have sufficient funds? do you have time? Make a good study of your project (the case you build a company) and what are the problems you might encounter.
Making your own is the best (as of my point of view) but it's you who (and the possibilities) that decide which way to take.
Good luck
Re: Ask HN: start on my own or negotiate with the employer?
#7Fear of violating contracts isn't a valid reason for not pursuing great ideas. This is what Silicon Valley was built on. If you have investor backing, you'll have help in handling the legal issues.
A much better reason to try to sell your idea within the company is the fantastic support you'll have. You're surrounded by people with deep knowledge of their domain, and it would be nearly impossible to find a co-founder with that level of experience.
That being said, it's quite likely that the company leadership won't want to pursue your idea, even if they like it. Maybe they're in a profit making mode, and don't want to invest and grow. Maybe it would be difficult to get customers to adopt a totally new product (think of Coke or WordStar in the 1980s).
It's also quite possible that some people love your idea, and others don't. If you demonstrate the value of your ideas, and people who agree with you see that you're not being taken seriously, you've just found some potential co-founders.
Who knows, there may be some guy in sales who's figured out a better way to market the product, and is also thinking of striking out on his own.
Re: Ask HN: start on my own or negotiate with the employer?
#8Seems you have a few competing opinions here, but I think there are a few key themes that you need to consider
1) Ethical
2) Legal
3) Financial
4) Processes
5) I'm sure their are others
From the sounds of the sounds of things, your boss is still in development. Has the product you have been working on been released into the wild yet?
It is unethical to be working on a competing product while working for your employer. However, remember that Woz approached HP with his idea, and they said no so he went and built Apple.
Legal commitments from non-compete are not always binding. You didn't say what country or state you are in, but you can check that out yourself. If you are happy ethically with leaving the company to start a competitor. Note that this happens all the time. Lots of ad agencies are started by former ad execs who jump ship and go out on their own, often stealing clients from their former employer.
Do you really want to start your own business? if so, is this the business you want to start? or is it just that you like this product? A product does not make a business. So I'd consider that very carefully as well. Is your 'planned' product so much better than what your current employer that you can truly build a business around it?
This might be an opportunity for you to learn a TON and get lots of experience and move up in the company you are working for. If the change is significant enough, you may be able to put yourself in a position where you are leading significant parts of the initiative.
In the end, I don't think you can get very far without at least discussing some things with your current employer, so if the relationship is solid enough, maybe sit down with them and talk about it. You don't have to give them your entire product ideas, but let them know that you think they are going in the wrong direction and see how they take it.
Their reaction could/should be a big eye-opener into what direction you want to take.
Re: Ask HN: start on my own or negotiate with the employer?
#9First, read "Things You Should Never Do" by Joel Spolsky (http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000069.html) to understand why the suggestion "lets rewrite this from scratch" might not be well received.
Second, I think that your employer is ethically entitled to first refusal on any ideas you come up with, and maybe even a second as well. If they turn you down then I don't see anything unethical with going off and doing it yourself. Of course there may be legal issues: talk to a lawyer if you think there might be some.
Third, don't over-estimate your knowledge of the market and ability to sell to it. The world is littered with products which were technically better than the competition, but failed in the market place. You may be better staying put and trying to work your ideas into the existing product piecemeal.
Re: Ask HN: start on my own or negotiate with the employer?
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