Edward Snowden: Saving Us from the United Stasi of America
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Re: Edward Snowden: Saving Us from the United Stasi of America
#2Fun fact: The NSA actually requested data that was collected by the STASI in East Germany.
http://www.microsofttranslator.com/bv.aspx?from=de&to=en&a=n...
German original:
https://netzpolitik.org/2013/erschreckende-statistik-geheimd...
Re: Edward Snowden: Saving Us from the United Stasi of America
#3For once I'll avoid Godwin's law and link instead to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_58
> The article was used for the imprisonment and execution of many prominent people, as well as multitudes of nonnotable innocents. (...) Article 58 of the Russian SFSR Penal Code was put in force on 25 February 1927 to arrest those suspected of counter-revolutionary activities.
So the point is that even in Soviet Russia people were sent into the Gulag based on written laws and going through the legal system, so I'd say that the US Government's reply that "it's all legal! it has gone through the courts" doesn't mean a thing as long as said laws are against the spirit of the US Constitution.
And I'd say that's the gist of it, the current laws are against the spirit of the original fundamental law of the United States. As long as its current citizens are ok with that (no mass protests etc) then I'd say there's nothing that the minority can do (if it matters I'm not from the US)
Re: Edward Snowden: Saving Us from the United Stasi of America
#4Fun fact: The NSA actually requested data that was collected by the STASI in East Germany. http://www.microsofttranslator.com/bv.aspx?from=de&to=en&a=n... German original: https://netzpolitik.org/2013/erschreckende-statistik-geheimd...
Just yesterday the former Federal Commissioner for the Stasi Archives and civil rights activist Johannes Gauck met with Barack Obama.
Re: Edward Snowden: Saving Us from the United Stasi of America
#5What I wonder is at what point words like stasi become reasonable or acceptable.
OK, I don't like what is happening, and almost day by day thing happen that I feel are pushing the west, led by the US, more and more towards something highly controlled and not in any way free. Liberty is slowly being eroded, and I genuinely feel that is a true statement objectively. Right now, words like stasi, fascist, etc are an exaggeration, but used by people who see it going that way. They use such words to warn, but we all know those words do not really stand up objectively.
So, what is the tipping point, what has to happen for such words to actually apply? Or is it merely a case of presentation? If society, superficially, doesn't look like old Nazi Germany, is that enough for a majority to be content, even if underling that is something deeply nasty?
Re: Edward Snowden: Saving Us from the United Stasi of America
#6I've got an answer for all the people who say, "I've got nothing to hide".
That might be true but you would have to be naive to think that the information that could be gathered from these NSA activities would not be misused by people.
Imagine an up and coming politician. Squeaky clean but was friends with a few people who got prosecuted for drug dealing. Those useful NSA phone records could easily lead to the press asking the young idealist if he often hung around with drug users. Irrelevant and potentially career ending.
Civil rights campaigners who could be accused of having an affair because of call records.
A journalist investigating a corrupt politician... is he a terrorist sympathizer... comb through the records.
You may have nothing to hide but often the people trying to improve your country for the better and root out corruption and crime will be more vulnerable to this. Because the corrupt individuals in positions of power will not respect the laws and procedures and will use this information for evil.
Thoughts?
Re: Edward Snowden: Saving Us from the United Stasi of America
#7What I wonder is at what point words like stasi become reasonable or acceptable. OK, I don't like what is happening, and almost day by day thing happen that I feel are pushing the west, led by the US, more and more towards something highly controlled and not in any way free. Liberty is slowly being eroded, and I genuinely feel that is a true statement objectively. Right now, words like stasi, fascist, etc are an exag…
It's a good question but the story of the frog in the slowly heating pot of water comes to mind. At what temperature should the frog really get worried?
Re: Edward Snowden: Saving Us from the United Stasi of America
#8Fun fact: The NSA actually requested data that was collected by the STASI in East Germany. http://www.microsofttranslator.com/bv.aspx?from=de&to=en&a=n... German original: https://netzpolitik.org/2013/erschreckende-statistik-geheimd...
Just yesterday the former Federal Commissioner for the Stasi Archives and civil rights activist Johannes Gauck met with Barack Obama.
To clarify for those that don't know: Gauck is now the president of Germany, so he didn't meet Obama because of his history.
Also, his first name is Joachim.
Re: Edward Snowden: Saving Us from the United Stasi of America
#9This whole thing has reminded me how prescient the movie "Sneakers" was.
"There's a war out there, old friend. A world war. And it's not about who's got the most bullets. It's about who controls the information. What we see and hear, how we work, what we think... it's all about the information!"
"The world isn't run by weapons anymore, or energy, or money. It's run by little ones and zeroes, little bits of data. It's all just electrons."
Re: Edward Snowden: Saving Us from the United Stasi of America
#10I've got an answer for all the people who say, "I've got nothing to hide". That might be true but you would have to be naive to think that the information that could be gathered from these NSA activities would not be misused by people. Imagine an up and coming politician. Squeaky clean but was friends with a few people who got prosecuted for drug dealing. Those useful NSA phone records could easily lead to the press…
Watch this classic lawyer's talk, and understand that "nothing to hide" is still no protection against talking ti authorities, even non-malicious ones.