The future of java
blog.headius.com
The future of java
1–10 of 15 posts
Re: The future of java
#2Part 1 says that the future of Java is really porting other languages (JRuby, Jython, Scala, etc.) to the JVM and enhancing the JVM to support them. Very little is said about Java itself. Perhaps that will be discussed in part 2. I, for one, would like to see a new Java that is less verbose and has better idioms for my tired fingers.
Re: The future of java
#3Part 1 says that the future of Java is really porting other languages (JRuby, Jython, Scala, etc.) to the JVM and enhancing the JVM to support them. Very little is said about Java itself. Perhaps that will be discussed in part 2. I, for one, would like to see a new Java that is less verbose and has better idioms for my tired fingers.
If that's what you want, why not use one of the many fine languages available that target the JVM? May I recommend a lovely Clojure -- dynamic but type hintable, with ridiculously easy Java interop?
Re: The future of java
#4Part 1 says that the future of Java is really porting other languages (JRuby, Jython, Scala, etc.) to the JVM and enhancing the JVM to support them. Very little is said about Java itself. Perhaps that will be discussed in part 2. I, for one, would like to see a new Java that is less verbose and has better idioms for my tired fingers.
If that's what you want, why not use one of the many fine languages available that target the JVM? May I recommend a lovely Clojure -- dynamic but type hintable, with ridiculously easy Java interop?
You are right, of course. Right now I am in the early stages of a gig where I have sole responsibility for 400K lines of an orphaned enterprise package written with all correct fads (sorry frameworks). To make matters even more fun, it is about 25% of the way through a transition from struts to flex. Turning this thing around is like doing high speed maneuvers in a super tanker. Anyway apologies for my muttering, but your suggestion is welcome.
Re: The future of java
#5What Charles says without actually saying, and what I find most interesting, is that the new age of platform war will be waged on VMs. In that case, I don't think Charlie has anything to worry about. The JVM may not be all peaches and cream, but it's at least as good or better than the CLR, and Parrot hasn't reached critical mass yet.
LLVM is interesting, but aims a bit below all of these. What I'd really like to see is some of the other language specific VMs try branching out. Lua, Io, Erlang, heck -- even Smalltalk, could all be viable candidates.
Re: The future of java
#6Earlier quoted context omitted.
If that's what you want, why not use one of the many fine languages available that target the JVM? May I recommend a lovely Clojure -- dynamic but type hintable, with ridiculously easy Java interop?
You are right, of course. Right now I am in the early stages of a gig where I have sole responsibility for 400K lines of an orphaned enterprise package written with all correct fads (sorry frameworks). To make matters even more fun, it is about 25% of the way through a transition from struts to flex. Turning this thing around is like doing high speed maneuvers in a super tanker. Anyway apologies for my muttering, but…
It might not go over well in a paid gig. Corporate tech managers do tend to freak out about Lisps and low-market-share languages in general.
One strategy that might help is to be brutally honest about how long it might take in Java, and how much cheaper it would be in a JVM-hosted dynamic language. But obviously if you don't already have enough experience with an alternative language to make a confident estimate, it would be a crazy gamble.
Re: The future of java
#7Earlier quoted context omitted.
You are right, of course. Right now I am in the early stages of a gig where I have sole responsibility for 400K lines of an orphaned enterprise package written with all correct fads (sorry frameworks). To make matters even more fun, it is about 25% of the way through a transition from struts to flex. Turning this thing around is like doing high speed maneuvers in a super tanker. Anyway apologies for my muttering, but…
It might not go over well in a paid gig. Corporate tech managers do tend to freak out about Lisps and low-market-share languages in general. One strategy that might help is to be brutally honest about how long it might take in Java, and how much cheaper it would be in a JVM-hosted dynamic language. But obviously if you don't already have enough experience with an alternative language to make a confident estimate, it…
Consulting gigs are funny. Some dont let you pee without an escort (literally), others, like this one, turn over the keys to the crown jewels. If I say it will be 2x cheaper there will be no problem. The only stumbling block is that the owner really likes the part implemented in flex and I am a little reluctant to continue with a proprietary system. Any views either way?
Re: The future of java
#8The supposed weakness of Scala as being "too complicated" or "too rich" can be countered by developing coding standards, creating more robust editors and tools, and by better educating polyglots on how best to use Scala.
This will never work. It never worked with C++. You need sharp C++ programmers to produce C++ code; you can't use mediocre programmers using a subset of the language. Even if you enforce simplicity internally, debugging and external library dependencies force all C++ programmers to cope with the full complexity of the language.
Java is an excellent language for exploiting the abilities of average programmers. Average programmers can be self-sufficient in Java. Outstanding programmers, exploiting the full power of Java, produce code and APIs that average programmers can understand and use. Scala cannot fill that role.
Re: The future of java
#9Part 1 says that the future of Java is really porting other languages (JRuby, Jython, Scala, etc.) to the JVM and enhancing the JVM to support them. Very little is said about Java itself. Perhaps that will be discussed in part 2. I, for one, would like to see a new Java that is less verbose and has better idioms for my tired fingers.
Scala isn't really a port; it's practically a Java native. Its primary creator had a lot to do with the development of Java, and despite being originally targeted toward both the JVM and the CLR, the Scala project has focused primarily on the JVM. As mentioned in the article, Scala can be used as a "better Java" and is much easier on the fingers (notably because it has type inference, but also because it supports functional programming better than Java.)
Re: The future of java
#10What Charles says without actually saying, and what I find most interesting, is that the new age of platform war will be waged on VMs. In that case, I don't think Charlie has anything to worry about. The JVM may not be all peaches and cream, but it's at least as good or better than the CLR, and Parrot hasn't reached critical mass yet. LLVM is interesting, but aims a bit below all of these. What I'd really like to see…
How is it better than the CLR?
!troll, I'm genuinely curious.