Women in Technology, Rise of the Anti-Movement
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Re: Women in Technology, Rise of the Anti-Movement
#2Good stuff. True equality is only obtained when everyone is treated equally. Putting women on a pedestal is /almost/ as bad as treating them as inferior.
Re: Women in Technology, Rise of the Anti-Movement
#3Is the paragraph commenting system on Medium a new thing?
Haven't noticed it before.
EDIT: Introduced April 10: https://medium.com/about/8304190661d4.
Re: Women in Technology, Rise of the Anti-Movement
#4[deleted]
Re: Women in Technology, Rise of the Anti-Movement
#5The problem with this article is that it doesn't actually say much new. The idea that it would be good to have more women in technology, as an end in itself rather than a means to some further end, is fairly widely accepted already.
The next question is how to bring that about, and this is where the arguments bog down, because this is where most of the disagreements are really happening anymore. We can't "move past rhetoric" until we agree on how to move forward, but that agreement is going to require rhetoric in its own right.
Re: Women in Technology, Rise of the Anti-Movement
#6We desperately need more women in tech and that's how we have been pursuing them, desperately. Women don't want to be treated differently and they don't want more focus put on them.
The problem is that I've seen a lot of articles about women in x (and x is often tech) end by saying that women need special programs and mentorship and opportunities and so on; am too lazy to dig them up now but chances are good you've seen them too.
The other issue is that if a specific company gets accused of a gender ratio imbalance, they can point at the special program and mentorship and opportunities as specific things, but it's very hard to show that the company is being "be more inclusive instead of polarizing."
Re: Women in Technology, Rise of the Anti-Movement
#7The problem with this article is that it doesn't actually say much new. The idea that it would be good to have more women in technology, as an end in itself rather than a means to some further end, is fairly widely accepted already. The next question is how to bring that about, and this is where the arguments bog down, because this is where most of the disagreements are really happening anymore. We can't "move past r…
The current rhetoric is acrimonious, partisan and has lost feminism a lot of formerly diehard support.
Re: Women in Technology, Rise of the Anti-Movement
#8The problem with this article is that it doesn't actually say much new. The idea that it would be good to have more women in technology, as an end in itself rather than a means to some further end, is fairly widely accepted already. The next question is how to bring that about, and this is where the arguments bog down, because this is where most of the disagreements are really happening anymore. We can't "move past r…
The current rhetoric is acrimonious, partisan and has lost feminism a lot of formerly diehard support.
This is true as far as it goes, but what do you propose to replace the acrimonious and partisan rhetoric? We really haven't reached agreement on how to proceed (there's even still some argument about whether we should, though that is mostly in the background nowadays). Without agreement, we've no choice but to talk, and that brings us back to where we are now.
Re: Women in Technology, Rise of the Anti-Movement
#9Earlier quoted context omitted.
The current rhetoric is acrimonious, partisan and has lost feminism a lot of formerly diehard support.
This is true as far as it goes, but what do you propose to replace the acrimonious and partisan rhetoric? We really haven't reached agreement on how to proceed (there's even still some argument about whether we should, though that is mostly in the background nowadays). Without agreement, we've no choice but to talk, and that brings us back to where we are now.
What is the rhetoric achieving? We're hackers, we know how to get things done: figure out what you want to change, measure it as well as you can, then iterate. I find it hard to imagine a measure articles like this would score well on.
Re: Women in Technology, Rise of the Anti-Movement
#10The problem with this article is that it doesn't actually say much new. The idea that it would be good to have more women in technology, as an end in itself rather than a means to some further end, is fairly widely accepted already. The next question is how to bring that about, and this is where the arguments bog down, because this is where most of the disagreements are really happening anymore. We can't "move past r…
It may not be new, but it clearly still needs to be said. The way to move forward is exactly as the article says: just stop discriminating. Don't treat female programmers as female programmers and male programmers as male programmers. Treat all of them as programmers. So many well meaning people try to be "inclusive" by singling out women and making a big stink about what they think women want/need/desire/dislike/etc, and then women become the target of people's unhappiness with bad polices that were put in to "help" them, which they never wanted or asked for.