Must-Reads When Recruiting Programmers

It's structured our interviews as we grow our team at http://thinkful.com/ as well as work with students to improve their resumes as junior engineers.

Re: Must-Reads When Recruiting Programmers

#6

Post by blindhippo » Fri, Apr 05, 2013, 6:30 PM UTC

Man I wish more employers in my local area (Calgary, Alberta) would read this article: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000050.html

Every place I interview at thinks:

- developers want to work in fishbowls ("fast paced environment")

- thinks old/used furniture from the 80's is suitable for developers

- assumes we want stock options as compensation (in a "start-up" hell no, give me actual stock or a real salary)

- assumes 40-60k a year is a good salary for developers. Yeah, no, not in Calgary. ("but we're not Oil and Gas so we can't pay as much..." deal with it buddy)

And since this isn't exactly a tech hotbed, most of us are forced to nod politely and take what we get offered (and maybe negotiate a third week of vacation if we're lucky).

Re: Must-Reads When Recruiting Programmers

#7

Post by rhc2104 » Fri, Apr 05, 2013, 7:25 PM UTC

blindhippo wrote: post #6

Man I wish more employers in my local area (Calgary, Alberta) would read this article: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000050.html Every place I interview at thinks: - developers want to work in fishbowls ("fast paced environment") - thinks old/used furniture from the 80's is suitable for developers - assumes we want stock options as compensation (in a "start-up" hell no, give me actual stock or a real…

I don't know about how Canadian taxes work, but at least in the US, you have to pay taxes on stock you receive, even if they are illiquid (but with stock options, taxation does not occur until you exercise).

Re: Must-Reads When Recruiting Programmers

#8

Post by blindhippo » Fri, Apr 05, 2013, 8:14 PM UTC

rhc2104 wrote: post #7

blindhippo wrote: post #6

Man I wish more employers in my local area (Calgary, Alberta) would read this article: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000050.html Every place I interview at thinks: - developers want to work in fishbowls ("fast paced environment") - thinks old/used furniture from the 80's is suitable for developers - assumes we want stock options as compensation (in a "start-up" hell no, give me actual stock or a real…

I don't know about how Canadian taxes work, but at least in the US, you have to pay taxes on stock you receive, even if they are illiquid (but with stock options, taxation does not occur until you exercise).

It's the same in Canada as far as I understand - but thing is, options aren't compensation unless the business is sold or goes public.

Unless I'm misunderstanding something, in which case I'll have to change my mind on this.

If I'm issued stock options in a privately held company at $1 per share, and I vest 200, I get $0 (the value hasn't changed since I was issued them). In order for the value to change, the company needs to be purchased or be listed on an exchange. No?

Re: Must-Reads When Recruiting Programmers

#9

Post by avenger123 » Fri, Apr 05, 2013, 8:17 PM UTC

blindhippo wrote: post #6

Man I wish more employers in my local area (Calgary, Alberta) would read this article: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000050.html Every place I interview at thinks: - developers want to work in fishbowls ("fast paced environment") - thinks old/used furniture from the 80's is suitable for developers - assumes we want stock options as compensation (in a "start-up" hell no, give me actual stock or a real…

You know, working in Alberta and not being in the oil and gas industry is like being a fish out of water.

Companies that are outside the industry really do have a hard time matching compensation.

It's a funny situation in a way. The average person within the industry doesn't know how good they have it if they have worked their whole career in oil and gas.

Generally people that are outside the industry have a sense of how good it is but don't really know.

Why fight the machine? You should get on the oil and gas ride and do the "fun" stuff on the side.

Re: Must-Reads When Recruiting Programmers

#10

Post by blindhippo » Fri, Apr 05, 2013, 8:31 PM UTC

avenger123 wrote: post #9

blindhippo wrote: post #6

Man I wish more employers in my local area (Calgary, Alberta) would read this article: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000050.html Every place I interview at thinks: - developers want to work in fishbowls ("fast paced environment") - thinks old/used furniture from the 80's is suitable for developers - assumes we want stock options as compensation (in a "start-up" hell no, give me actual stock or a real…

You know, working in Alberta and not being in the oil and gas industry is like being a fish out of water. Companies that are outside the industry really do have a hard time matching compensation. It's a funny situation in a way. The average person within the industry doesn't know how good they have it if they have worked their whole career in oil and gas. Generally people that are outside the industry have a sense of…

I struggle with this - I know exactly the difference between being in the industry vs doing local start-ups. Start-ups are more fun and I can usually forgive the pay inequity (it's about 20-30k per year less in normalized salary).

If I could put up with the O&G corporate environment I'd be all over it - but I do prefer natural light in my work environment and an interesting problem domain over a flourescent lit grey cubicle on the 12th floor of some sky scraper and another well analysis application.