German Fascination With Degrees Claims Latest Victim: Education Minister
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Re: German Fascination With Degrees Claims Latest Victim: Education Minister
#2Yes, the Germans value degrees.
But Ms Shavan having to step back has nothing to do with that. This is not about her degree, this is about her having cheated. The Germans are very sensitive in this regard. A few years ago, a minister got into serious trouble because he used the frequent flier miles obtained as a minister for a private flight.
Re: German Fascination With Degrees Claims Latest Victim: Education Minister
#3> Many Germans believe the scandals are rooted in their abiding respect, and even lust, for academic accolades, including the use of Prof. before Dr. and occasionally Dr. DR. for those with two doctoral degrees.
> Prof. Dr. Wanka got her doctorate in 1980, the same year as Dr. Schavan.
While the title-compounding effect did strike me as comical, this did force me to reflect a bit on our own worship of pedigree. Anyone who's spent any time on Angel List has undoubtedly been treated to "founders from stanford & MIT", "started by Berkeley students", "MBA from Chicago", etc.
These are, of course, almost apples and oranges (double-doctorates vs undergrad / masters), but credentialing is certainly alive and well here in the US. Scott Thompson @ yahoo is a particularly recent public example.
Re: German Fascination With Degrees Claims Latest Victim: Education Minister
#4Ummmm Education Minister who (allegedly) cheated at university forced to step down.
Don't really see that as a "Fascination With Degrees"
Might have been a interesting topic, but it's a hopeless segue.
Re: German Fascination With Degrees Claims Latest Victim: Education Minister
#5The German hierarchy in academia is unbelievable. Few years back I moved from a federal lab in California to a state lab in Germany. I felt abashed at the extravagant praise of the head professor there.
Also, the Prof. Dr. thing on business cards used to make me laugh, until I could grasp the whole system, and how detrimental it was for students (high pressure, never ending hierarchy, blind worship, ...).
Re: German Fascination With Degrees Claims Latest Victim: Education Minister
#6Ummmm Education Minister who (allegedly) cheated at university forced to step down. Don't really see that as a "Fascination With Degrees" Might have been a interesting topic, but it's a hopeless segue.
Yes, the title is quite misleading. While there are a few people who pursue a PhD purely for its status, this was probably not the case for Annette Schavan.
Re: German Fascination With Degrees Claims Latest Victim: Education Minister
#7"“I just think that many Germans have a police gene in their genetic makeup,”"
Lol, discussion Godwin'ed by the OP itself - the NYT, no less.
Re: German Fascination With Degrees Claims Latest Victim: Education Minister
#8> Many Germans believe the scandals are rooted in their abiding respect, and even lust, for academic accolades, including the use of Prof. before Dr. and occasionally Dr. DR. for those with two doctoral degrees. > Prof. Dr. Wanka got her doctorate in 1980, the same year as Dr. Schavan. While the title-compounding effect did strike me as comical, this did force me to reflect a bit on our own worship of pedigree. Anyon…
Good point. For decades the education system in Germany tried to eradicate differences between universities. For the longest time there was also no separate bachelors degree. Getting a doctorate was therefore the only way to distinguish yourself from the student masses.
This has changed in the past years after the "Bologna reforms" have replaced the German diploma by the international bachelors/masters system and since the "excellence initiative" has given "elite" predicated to some of the German universities. Ironically this initiative was governed by the education department, headed by Mrs. Dr. mult. Annette Schavan.
Re: German Fascination With Degrees Claims Latest Victim: Education Minister
#9“title arousal.”
If the Germans had a fascination with degrees, they wouldn't have Mercedes engineers without a university degree http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16159943
Re: German Fascination With Degrees Claims Latest Victim: Education Minister
#10The German hierarchy in academia is unbelievable. Few years back I moved from a federal lab in California to a state lab in Germany. I felt abashed at the extravagant praise of the head professor there. Also, the Prof. Dr. thing on business cards used to make me laugh, until I could grasp the whole system, and how detrimental it was for students (high pressure, never ending hierarchy, blind worship, ...).
This hugely depends on the field of research and the individual research groups. Medicine is traditionally very hierarchical - mathematics or computer science not so.
Could you elaborate on the detrimental effects?