I'm currently working with a really great iOS developer. He is charging me $100/hr, which seems like a lot, but the hours he quoted for the full project were very reasonable. However, need some contractual work for the same company and have a friend who is a partner at a major law firm in the Valley & he charges close to $700/hr. He is very bright and hard working, but can anything justify $700/hr. What am I missing?
$700/hr for legal advice vs. $100/hr for a top software engineer – why?
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Re: $700/hr for legal advice vs. $100/hr for a top software engineer – why?
#2I charge $100/hr and I'm nowhere near a top developer. I'm sure the top developers are charging a lot more
Re: $700/hr for legal advice vs. $100/hr for a top software engineer – why?
#3A failure of a free market for legal services. Anyone can become a professional ios developer, there is free entry/exit in this market. The ABA artificially limits the number of potential lawyers with the Bar and requiring you go to an accredited school.[1] An intelligent individual cannot educate themselves in the legal field in their spare time and get to the point where they can hang their own shingle in the same manner an ios developer can. The number of potential lawyers is further reduced by the patent bar as well and states that do not honor out of state lawyers.
[1] With the exception of a few states where one can still "read law" under a judge or attorney and take the bar.
Re: $700/hr for legal advice vs. $100/hr for a top software engineer – why?
#4Because software people don't ask for more.
developer auction offers I'm getting is 85k to 130k so far, for someone with close to 10 year experience in the valley! wtf
Re: $700/hr for legal advice vs. $100/hr for a top software engineer – why?
#5Well first off, he can value his time however much he wants. As a partner at a major law firm in SV, he's incredibly busy so his time is extremely valuable (any distraction like consulting only makes sense at a rate of ~700 per hour for him) and as a partner, he's probably making millions at the firm. If he spent 5 more hours at the firm and was able to generate a multiple of what you're paying him for 5 hours of work (3500), then he's probably not charging enough, right?
If you want general legal advice for startups, talk to startup-friendly law firms. Many have packages where you give up 1-2 thousand bucks only for X number of hours + turning your startup into an INC or LLC or whatever + a small equity stake. For other law firms, you'll just have to talk to them and figure out what their rates are. Most are more in the 50-100 dollar range. Don't skimp on legal expenses, if you get sued for a few million dollars, you'll regret skimping on paying a better lawyer a few thousand bucks more.
Re: $700/hr for legal advice vs. $100/hr for a top software engineer – why?
#6You missed out meeting a lawyer early in your life. You didn't get to see his lifestyle. But I am guessing you did meet a software coder early in life which left a huge impression. That's all. Remember, life isn't fair... you're a digital ditch digger! (DDD)or(3D)or(D3)
Re: $700/hr for legal advice vs. $100/hr for a top software engineer – why?
#7Generally, a lawyer has a lot more responsibility that a software engineer. The repercussions of a bad legal error can be felt for a long time. A software mistake? easily fixed.
Re: $700/hr for legal advice vs. $100/hr for a top software engineer – why?
#8In addition to the other reasons here, I think when it comes to lawyers and doctors, people typically want "the best".
Are you willing to take a risk with your health or getting into legal trouble?
So the price of the best people just keeps going up and up.
With developers, there is more of a concept of "good enough". As long as you find someone that can build the thing and it works, that's good enough.
Re: $700/hr for legal advice vs. $100/hr for a top software engineer – why?
#9He is very bright and hard working, but can anything justify $700/hr.
Are you going to employ him at the $700/hr rate? If so, you would have justified it. Unless the $700/hr were just a ploy to start a pricing negotiation, rather than what he typically bills, the cost is being justified by the people keeping him in business.
That aside, if he works for a big firm, it'd be fairer to compare his rate to that of what a consulting firm bills out its developers (which is very far north of $100/hr).
Re: $700/hr for legal advice vs. $100/hr for a top software engineer – why?
#10Is it fair to compare a major law firm with an independent software engineer? At my last company (~3000 employees) when I did billable work they charged the client 300/hour. From a few minutes of googling I am reading that typical lawyer fees (not big law firms) are 200-300 dollar an hour, eg: http://www.topix.com/forum/city/utica-ny/TDV8TU0N3HTLL1UMK.
I've never hired a lawyer and I've never directly contracted myself out so I am by no means an expert on this topic. Great question though.