Let's talk about EU Sovereignty (2025)

#1

Post by mooreds » Sat, May 30, 2026, 5:49 PM UTC

Let's talk about EU Sovereignty (2025)
musings.martyn.berlin

Re: Let's talk about EU Sovereignty (2025)

#2

Post by petcat » Sat, May 30, 2026, 6:43 PM UTC

> Yes, the EU “cloud providers” are lagging behind but they’re catching up. Scaleway, Herzner, and others are there, and you should check them out if you’re starting a business in the EU.

I would argue that these aren't even "cloud providers", they are just VPS providers. Which is fine, but it's not the same thing.

There really isn't any European "cloud" service at all, which is a huge part of the problem. And I doubt there ever will be because who would even build it?

It would cost billions and billions of euros just to be "not AWS" (but worse in every way except location). Who is investing in that?

Re: Let's talk about EU Sovereignty (2025)

#3

Post by mooreds » Sat, May 30, 2026, 6:50 PM UTC

petcat wrote: post #2

> Yes, the EU “cloud providers” are lagging behind but they’re catching up. Scaleway, Herzner, and others are there, and you should check them out if you’re starting a business in the EU. I would argue that these aren't even "cloud providers", they are just VPS providers. Which is fine, but it's not the same thing. There really isn't any European "cloud" service at all, which is a huge part of the problem. And I doub…

> Who is investing in that?

Big companies that see the opportunity to be "Not AWS"?

A VPS provider who wants to grow their marketshare?

Nation states?

Not saying it'll be a small effort, but if the US continues to wield national laws to coerce American companies to negatively affect European citizens, it's possible.

Re: Let's talk about EU Sovereignty (2025)

#4

Post by nish__ » Sat, May 30, 2026, 6:51 PM UTC

petcat wrote: post #2

> Yes, the EU “cloud providers” are lagging behind but they’re catching up. Scaleway, Herzner, and others are there, and you should check them out if you’re starting a business in the EU. I would argue that these aren't even "cloud providers", they are just VPS providers. Which is fine, but it's not the same thing. There really isn't any European "cloud" service at all, which is a huge part of the problem. And I doub…

No. "Cloud" is a marketing term for VPSs.

Re: Let's talk about EU Sovereignty (2025)

#5

Post by tormeh » Sat, May 30, 2026, 6:51 PM UTC

petcat wrote: post #2

> Yes, the EU “cloud providers” are lagging behind but they’re catching up. Scaleway, Herzner, and others are there, and you should check them out if you’re starting a business in the EU. I would argue that these aren't even "cloud providers", they are just VPS providers. Which is fine, but it's not the same thing. There really isn't any European "cloud" service at all, which is a huge part of the problem. And I doub…

You cannot possibly with a straight face claim that Scaleway is a VPS provider. Hetzner, sure, but Scaleway offers compute and database services in the same way that AWS does - just fewer.

Re: Let's talk about EU Sovereignty (2025)

#6

Post by yubblegum » Sat, May 30, 2026, 6:52 PM UTC

petcat wrote: post #2

> Yes, the EU “cloud providers” are lagging behind but they’re catching up. Scaleway, Herzner, and others are there, and you should check them out if you’re starting a business in the EU. I would argue that these aren't even "cloud providers", they are just VPS providers. Which is fine, but it's not the same thing. There really isn't any European "cloud" service at all, which is a huge part of the problem. And I doub…

> And I doubt there ever will be because who would even build it?

My money would be on the French.

Re: Let's talk about EU Sovereignty (2025)

#7

Post by maccard » Sat, May 30, 2026, 6:54 PM UTC

petcat wrote: post #2

> Yes, the EU “cloud providers” are lagging behind but they’re catching up. Scaleway, Herzner, and others are there, and you should check them out if you’re starting a business in the EU. I would argue that these aren't even "cloud providers", they are just VPS providers. Which is fine, but it's not the same thing. There really isn't any European "cloud" service at all, which is a huge part of the problem. And I doub…

> There really isn't any European "cloud" service at all, which is a huge part of the problem. And I doubt there ever will be because who would even build it?

Lidl! https://horovits.medium.com/lidl-is-taking-on-aws-the-age-of...

Re: Let's talk about EU Sovereignty (2025)

#8

Post by boredatoms » Sat, May 30, 2026, 6:56 PM UTC

So when is France/Germany going to subsidize a local competitor, say through anchor customers like their militaries

Re: Let's talk about EU Sovereignty (2025)

#9

Post by xg15 » Sat, May 30, 2026, 7:02 PM UTC

I feel the article is a bit roundabout, but eventually gets to the point: "Sovereignty" is not (mainly) about physical location, it's about which legal entity controls the data and whether or not that entity is subject to US jurisdiction and could be forced to disclose the data to US companies or agencies, in violation of EU law.

Re: Let's talk about EU Sovereignty (2025)

#10

Post by johndhi » Sat, May 30, 2026, 7:07 PM UTC

This is such a dumb topic to me - and I work closely to this issue. The blog post talks about criminal surveillance and gag order possibilities - but has no examples of these being meaningfully applied. Eu govt also spies on citizens.

Obviously the true political point is the geopolitical security risk of depending on another country. There's some truth there but really all countries depend on all others and the way to balance it is to use and grow the trading leverage you do have, not trying to shore up your weaknesses.