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3Taps Files Countersuit, Says Craigslist Is Anticompetitive

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Re: 3Taps Files Countersuit, Says Craigslist Is Anticompetitive

#3

This is like scraping Amazons reviews since they are available via Google and claiming you can display that user submitted content how ever you like. I can't see 3Taps having much of any case here.

I don't see how 3Taps is any different a client than google is. Now, i dont know enough details, so i m not saying 3tap has a case. But, if they scrape data off craigslist, not via their api (to which they agreed to abide by terms and conditions), then they _do_ seem to have a case!

Re: 3Taps Files Countersuit, Says Craigslist Is Anticompetitive

#4

This is like scraping Amazons reviews since they are available via Google and claiming you can display that user submitted content how ever you like. I can't see 3Taps having much of any case here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_scraping#Legal_issues

Hard to say what will happen. They will sure as shit get sued, but what will happen is up in the air as far as I can tell. If I remember correctly, if you are somehow changing or making new content from the data, then it is protected under fair use somehow.

Re: 3Taps Files Countersuit, Says Craigslist Is Anticompetitive

#5
I hope that 3Taps follows through. This countersuit may help set a clearer precedent for who owns the data posted on public forums and what third party developers should be allowed to do with it.

Earlier this year I was searching for an apartment in San Francisco. Craigslist was my only source for places to apply. The good apartments got snatched up pretty fast so I wanted a way to make sure I saw every listing that came through. The problem: there are easily 500 new listings added every day, and approximately 20% of these were re-posts of the same place. It's very difficult and draining, just trying to keep track of what you've already seen and where you left off since the last time you checked.

So I did what any self respecting iOS developer would do: I made an app. It worked pretty much like an email inbox. Each new listing was like a new message. Refreshing the feed was like checking your email. Reposts were marked. You could bookmark and store things. The app colored the message cells based on whether they were from the most recent import or not (i.e. the app keeps your place).

The best part? It worked pretty damn well. I gave it to a few other people via Test Flight and they were hooked as well.

So, again, I did what any self respecting iOS developer would do: I put the app on the App Store. I figured that since my app was exclusively a craigslist client - a tool to make using craigslist better - I might have a better chance of not incurring craigslist's wrath. I put it on sale for $3.99 (it's called Craigslist Commando, if you're curious) and hoped for the best.

The app did pretty well given that I did zero promotion for it. It was brining in around $30-40/day after Apple's cut. Unfortunately, my hopes for escaping craigslist's wrath did not pan out. I received a cease and desist letter from them two weeks ago. I'm still waiting on hearing back from them. They've gone silent on me after our initial contact in which they told me to expect a draft licensing agreement. I'm guessing they went silent because they have bigger things on their plate right now. I have opted to keep the app in the store during this time, but I'm not very optimistic that craigslist's licensing terms will be tenable.

All of this to say: I have a pony in this race. I respect craiglist's rights to do what they think is necessary to protect their business. However something about this just doesn't jive for me:

a) People go to craigslist and create content about some aspect of their lives. They, as the original authors of the content, post it to craiglist with the intention that the general public can see it.

b) Other people go to craigslist to view content posted to a public forum in hopes of finding something. This process is frustrating and difficult.

c) I create a tool that makes the process of finding something on craigslist less frustrating and difficult.

d) Craigslist threatens to sue me for creating the that tool. This despite the fact that I'm helping both: the original authors of the content who would like to have their posts seen by their target audience and, the viewers of the content by making the viewing process more efficient.

I suppose craigslist has these rights. But it just doesn't seem right.

Re: 3Taps Files Countersuit, Says Craigslist Is Anticompetitive

#6

This is like scraping Amazons reviews since they are available via Google and claiming you can display that user submitted content how ever you like. I can't see 3Taps having much of any case here.

It's not at all like that. The interesting thing seems to be the claim that Craigslist posts lack creativity, which Amazon reviews certainly do have. 3Taps is claiming the posts can't be protected by copyright, because you can't copyright facts. I think their case has merit.

Re: 3Taps Files Countersuit, Says Craigslist Is Anticompetitive

#7
Direct link to the counterclaim: http://3taps.com/papers/3taps-answer-counterclaim.pdf

As a developer who received a C&D from Craigslist for a pretty innocuous app (seriously, it was built in a weekend), I'm glad to see someone test Craigslist's legal position in court.

At the very least, I hope it will expose that Craigslist is not just a happy, hippy-infused neighborhood listserve like many seem to think; rather, like most other companies, it actually goes to great lengths to quash threats to its very profitable business.

Re: 3Taps Files Countersuit, Says Craigslist Is Anticompetitive

#8
post #5

I hope that 3Taps follows through. This countersuit may help set a clearer precedent for who owns the data posted on public forums and what third party developers should be allowed to do with it. Earlier this year I was searching for an apartment in San Francisco. Craigslist was my only source for places to apply. The good apartments got snatched up pretty fast so I wanted a way to make sure I saw every listing that…

> a) People go to craigslist and create content about some aspect of their lives. They, as the original authors of the content, post it to craiglist with the intention that the general public can see it.

Craigslist users only agreed to have their content displayed on the Craigslist site, not on any other random site on the Internet who wants to relist their posting without the users explicit permission.

Re: 3Taps Files Countersuit, Says Craigslist Is Anticompetitive

#10
The irony is that if Craigslist would just take the time and effort to add a bit more functional / elegant interface, these third parties would have no reason to exist, and all the legal matters would disappear

I understand that Craigslist wants to "Serve their community" and believes that changing their interface would interfere with that mission somehow (both, in terms of having to charge more in order to hire UI people, as well as engineer their Ops environment to handle additional load), but, I have to believe their is some way of simultaneously serving their community, providing a rapid response, as well as keeping their cost and overhead down while at the same time slapping a somewhat more elegant GUI and Search Interface.

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