Ask HN: Is it worth a back-end developer's time to get into web-design and HTML/CSS

#1

Post by orange5912 » Sun, Jan 25, 2009, 4:25 PM UTC

I'm a Rails developer that can handle the back-end stack of web development, but never invested the time to do any web design or HTML/CSS.

Is it worth investing my time to learn web design and HTML/CSS, or should I source these and focus on other parts of the app?

I'm bootstrapping a site right now, and definitely feel a bit handicapped not being able to create the HTML/CSS and creatives to tie it in with the back end. I figured being able to create sites from start to finish would be helpful for both possible freelancing gigs and bootstrapping sites in the future too.

An option I've thought of was to use free resources for the creatives, and use free HTML/CSS templates, and go from there.

The developer side of me is saying to learn it right from the beginning - start looking into web design tutorials, mainly ones from scratch (PSD/pen and paper to static HTML/CSS).

The business side of me is leaning towards sourcing the web design and HTML/CSS, or partnering up with a web designer (have yet to find one but am familiar with the sites that do that) and trade services or form a team.

I'm sure there are alot of you guys that are jack-of-all-trades and others that specialize in either the front-end or back-end of web development, that have questioned this too. Thoughts?

Re: Ask HN: Is it worth a back-end developer's time to get into web-design and HTML/CSS

#2

Post by ssharp » Sun, Jan 25, 2009, 4:35 PM UTC

The answer could be to source it now but still learn it for the future. The nice thing about learning the entire vertical of a platform is that you don't HAVE to rely on outside help for any part of the process. You may still want to, but being able to do everything yourself is a definite advantage, especially when time and/or money is an issue.

However, you time is best spent just learning CSS and web page layouts. Web design and graphic design are not the same thing. You can learn to layout web pages with limited artistic talents. When a site may need heavier graphic elements, you're better off going with an expert. Knowing your strengths and weaknesses is very important.

The wonderful thing about the web is that its very easy to stand on the shoulders of giants. With layouts and usability, you don't need to do your own work and testing. Take a look at websites with great layouts and morph their ideas into your own. Read design and usability blogs and try to determine what will be best for you.

Best of luck!

Re: Ask HN: Is it worth a back-end developer's time to get into web-design and HTML/CSS

#3

Post by rsayers » Sun, Jan 25, 2009, 4:36 PM UTC

I am also a back-end developer and have found design knowledge to be very useful.

Very often I'll be given a layout which breaks once I started adding code to it, a good html/css understanding will let you fix issues like this without having to pass it back to a designer.

I can think of many times where design skill has paid off, namely a time when our sole designer quit leaving me to fill in for him, but I've found the knowledge to be extremely useful even if I only need it occasionally.

Re: Ask HN: Is it worth a back-end developer's time to get into web-design and HTML/CSS

#4

Post by rockstar9 » Sun, Jan 25, 2009, 4:43 PM UTC

I think it's important to learn HTML/CSS. A good understanding of user interface will complement and affect the way you program. You should have a good grasp of how a website should "flow."

On the other hand, graphic designs is a different story. Developing a good artistic sense will take time and practice. If you plan on developing entire websites on your own, why not spend a little time to graphics design to make things look prettier? However, you don't plan on spending any time on this, then find a good designer :)

Re: Ask HN: Is it worth a back-end developer's time to get into web-design and HTML/CSS

#5

Post by wallflower » Sun, Jan 25, 2009, 4:56 PM UTC

The more you know about design in general, the more effective you are. People don't respond to a back-end transaction program - they respond to the user experience.

I would highly recommend checking out a CHI meeting (Computer-Human Interface a.k.a. UX/UXD). I guarantee you will learn a lot by meeting and listening to designers lecture other designers.

http://www.sigchi.org/local-sigs/

Re: Ask HN: Is it worth a back-end developer's time to get into web-design and HTML/CSS

#6

Post by sachinag » Sun, Jan 25, 2009, 5:03 PM UTC

I'm going to, as someone who cannot code, take the minority view here. You are more valuable to your company or to your clients (if you're doing freelance work) if you know systems administration in and out. Between crowdSPRING + PSD2HTML, you can get a decent implementation of a design relatively cheap. There's no way to outsource "good enough" systems administration.

Re: Ask HN: Is it worth a back-end developer's time to get into web-design and HTML/CSS

#7

Post by pj » Sun, Jan 25, 2009, 5:14 PM UTC

omg, this question is painful.

HTML and CSS are skills that are worth your /time/. Forget the money. You can improve your /own/ life with HTML and CSS.

The more you know, the more powerful you are!

Have you ever been approached by someone from the front end who said, "Man, it's hard to build this page the way I want it because the backend doesn't do XYZ?" and you look at them like, "figure it out!"

You only do that because you can't relate to them. You don't know how hard it is to do a three column layout in CSS so you blow them off and think, "It's been done before go do it."

But that's not the right approach. The right approach is to understand /why/ it's hard from the front-end so you can make your back-end more suitable to the front.

Building complex systems is a conversation between layers. Data comes from the database, goes through the "backend" then gets displayed. At each of these levels, the more one knows about the other, the easier the dialog between the layers.

So, OF COURSE it is worth a back-end developer's time to learn more about the front-end. It's also worth a front-end developers time to learn more about the backend.

YES.

Re: Ask HN: Is it worth a back-end developer's time to get into web-design and HTML/CSS

#8

Post by inerte » Sun, Jan 25, 2009, 5:16 PM UTC

Yes, it is worth, specially since you're making a website, even if you're going to hire someone. You can at least glance if they're doing correctly, as far as you will know.

HTML/CSS isn't hard. And you need to consider if what you're doing will work on multiple browsers, including mobiles. Knowledge about this will mean more visitors, and thus more money.

Now, creative... that's another question. A good design, in the strict aesthetics sense of the word, is very hard. In fact, for some people, it's a whole career :)

Also, while I don't recommend going for the aesthetics route, there's much more involved in webdesign. SEO, usability, accessibility. You should be able to take a pretty PSD from a designer, and develop with ul/li for menus instead of using Flash, for example.

Re: Ask HN: Is it worth a back-end developer's time to get into web-design and HTML/CSS

#9

Post by functionoid » Sun, Jan 25, 2009, 5:20 PM UTC

I'd say learn html/css and along with that concentrate more on usability of the website. To be really good at creating graphics and flash for websites could take some time. So I'd say definitely learn HTML/CSS also learn the usability aspect of web design and out source the graphics part. May be for this project you might want to outsource the html/css also.

Re: Ask HN: Is it worth a back-end developer's time to get into web-design and HTML/CSS

#10

Post by code_devil » Sun, Jan 25, 2009, 5:21 PM UTC

I am often in the same boat as you are in. I would say for this current project, hire a Web Designer to complete the project. However, also try to learn HTML/CSS so you can follow the HTML/CSS written by the outsourced programmer.