I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

- Product not as advertised, because it failed to disclose the need for a smart phone model supported by their app, and WiFi, and an internet connection, and etc.

- Product is not ADA(?) compliant, because all that extra complexity makes using it too difficult for some disabled people.

- Product is in violation of data security regulations of some US States, or countries, or the EU, because ...

And in theory, any Cory Doctorow fan with the spare time could set up a web site to name & shame all the consumer products which had these "involuntary cloud" features, helping people avoid them.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#5

Post by pavel_lishin » Mon, Mar 24, 2025, 6:02 PM UTC

I suppose this means that in the future, when I shop for a home appliance, I'll have to download their manual first and scan for things like this.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#6

Post by fpauser » Mon, Mar 24, 2025, 6:03 PM UTC

Just return that dumb dishwasher.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#7

Post by geerlingguy » Mon, Mar 24, 2025, 6:08 PM UTC

bell-cot wrote: post #4

Legal Action Possibilities: - Product not as advertised, because it failed to disclose the need for a smart phone model supported by their app, and WiFi, and an internet connection, and etc. - Product is not ADA(?) compliant, because all that extra complexity makes using it too difficult for some disabled people. - Product is in violation of data security regulations of some US States, or countries, or the EU, becaus…

I think that's somewhat the intent of this wiki (though it's more focused on making things repairable, less on the IoT shenanigans): https://repair.wiki/w/Main_Page#gsc.tab=0

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#8

Post by Avamander » Mon, Mar 24, 2025, 6:08 PM UTC

And all this stuff could work directly locally, it'd even make alternatives possible and it'd be an immensely better experience. It would eliminate the latency it takes for the requests to reach halfway across the world and back. It would also eliminate a lot of the privacy and security concerns.

What makes it worse is that these cloud connections also tend to be insecure and unreliable or both. I've seen multiple vendors (including Miele) make unencrypted connections to their cloud. (Try blocking port 80 outgoing on your firewalls.)

I've also set up a bit of monitoring for a few appliance manufacturer's clouds - these cloud services have outages all the damn time. To an extent it makes sense given that nobody is explicitly paying for them. On the other hand it's a terrible omen for the longevity of such services. (I can't wait to buy an expired appliance manufacturer's domain.)

I can't imagine a solution to this mess either besides legislation, like forcing some open access at least on EOL.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#9

Post by Avamander » Mon, Mar 24, 2025, 6:09 PM UTC

pavel_lishin wrote: post #5

I suppose this means that in the future, when I shop for a home appliance, I'll have to download their manual first and scan for things like this.

Unfortunately unavoidable unless you take the cheapest model and miss out on a lot of features you might otherwise like.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#10

Post by geerlingguy » Mon, Mar 24, 2025, 6:10 PM UTC

pavel_lishin wrote: post #5

I suppose this means that in the future, when I shop for a home appliance, I'll have to download their manual first and scan for things like this.

Yeah... there was nothing on the product page on Lowes (it was after 10 pm on a busy Saturday, so I didn't have time to dig as deep as I would with a pre-planned purchase) and I thought the 500 series would be consistent from what I had read years ago. There was no indication that certain features (besides Alexa/Google Home integration, lol) would be locked behind the app.