Hector Martin – [Patch] Maintainers: Remove Myself
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Re: Hector Martin – [Patch] Maintainers: Remove Myself
#2[deleted]
Re: Hector Martin – [Patch] Maintainers: Remove Myself
#3Another for the pile of reverse-engineered devicetrees that started downstream, tried to negotiate with upstream and ended up realizing the futility of it all. Godspeed, may your path to depreciation be slow and painless.
Re: Hector Martin – [Patch] Maintainers: Remove Myself
#4It is what it is... However if you want volunteers to contribute to the kernel and introduce rust as a way to get more people to join this looks pretty bad... I'm sure stuff will figure itself out in the long run it's just sad that the discourse exists at all. I guess the linux kernel will never transition to memory safety via a new language? Idk what else can be done.
Re: Hector Martin – [Patch] Maintainers: Remove Myself
#5Another for the pile of reverse-engineered devicetrees that started downstream, tried to negotiate with upstream and ended up realizing the futility of it all. Godspeed, may your path to depreciation be slow and painless.
I hope they keep up the good fight …
Re: Hector Martin – [Patch] Maintainers: Remove Myself
#6Another for the pile of reverse-engineered devicetrees that started downstream, tried to negotiate with upstream and ended up realizing the futility of it all. Godspeed, may your path to depreciation be slow and painless.
I hope they keep up the good fight …
The good fight was already lost when Apple didn't lift a finger to help. No documentation, no driver code, just an open-enough iBoot interface to flash some code onto. Valiant programmers can take a hack like that pretty far, but at some point they have to ask what they're fighting for. Is Asahi interested in adapting to the norms of the Linux kernel, or do they insist on bending the Linux kernel to meet them?
I understand their exhaustion, but aiming their frustrations at Linus for having an entirely level-headed response shows that they can't read the room. This is the Linux project, you're going to have problems merging enormous codebases that reverse-engineer poorly understood hardware. I support Rust in the Linux kernel, but this is the kind of envoy that will spoil the effort.
Re: Hector Martin – [Patch] Maintainers: Remove Myself
#7Re: Hector Martin – [Patch] Maintainers: Remove Myself
#8It is what it is... However if you want volunteers to contribute to the kernel and introduce rust as a way to get more people to join this looks pretty bad... I'm sure stuff will figure itself out in the long run it's just sad that the discourse exists at all. I guess the linux kernel will never transition to memory safety via a new language? Idk what else can be done.
Well, I very much hope that the Linux kernel will never transition to Rust. The language is far too complex for my taste. IMHO Rust people should just build their own kernels and if those are better they can replace Linux just like the C++ microkernels did.
Re: Hector Martin – [Patch] Maintainers: Remove Myself
#9This whole thing is, at it's core, an architectural question. It's quite simple: How much should the C code have to change to allow better Rust support?
Despite his position as "Benevolent dictator for life", Linus doesn't really have the chutzpah to stand up and say "we're doing it this way"[1], so these sorts of questions try to get resolved through petty bickering and namecalling instead (which is the opposite of consensus-building and healthy debate and just makes people more entrenched and unwilling to compromise).
[1] - He was already ousted from the project once, I don't think he wants to try it again.
Re: Hector Martin – [Patch] Maintainers: Remove Myself
#10It is what it is... However if you want volunteers to contribute to the kernel and introduce rust as a way to get more people to join this looks pretty bad... I'm sure stuff will figure itself out in the long run it's just sad that the discourse exists at all. I guess the linux kernel will never transition to memory safety via a new language? Idk what else can be done.
Well, I very much hope that the Linux kernel will never transition to Rust. The language is far too complex for my taste. IMHO Rust people should just build their own kernels and if those are better they can replace Linux just like the C++ microkernels did.
The complaints I have with rust are going to be on the async side. We need memory safety in the kernel, it dosen't have to be majority but having vital parts in rust could be a game changer. The kernel must evolve, all players are moving this way. Swift is being introduced into Darwin, Rust into Windows. Memory safety is not a fad and the only tangible options right now is rust. Swift could be interesting but creates other problems, zig is not 100% safe, and carbon is vapor ware. Could there be something better than rust? Yes. Do I think rust can be annoying at times? Absolutely... But the way I look at it, we don't have another shot.