Javascript or Flash Widgets debate. Help me choose what to use.

#1

Post by thomasswift » Thu, Aug 16, 2007, 2:51 AM UTC

What are your thoughts, tips, and/or best practices for either?

Re: Javascript or Flash Widgets debate. Help me choose what to use.

#2

Post by ed » Thu, Aug 16, 2007, 4:25 AM UTC

Play to the particular technology's strengths... flash for video or performance and javascript for flash-disabled clients or working closely with the DOM

Re: Javascript or Flash Widgets debate. Help me choose what to use.

#3

Post by jsjenkins168 » Thu, Aug 16, 2007, 4:27 AM UTC

I personally prefer lightweight javascript over the often slower flash equivalent. Rich UI functionality is generally easier to implement in flash though. But this can be a heated debate so watch out..

Some things to consider: The iPhone supports javascript but not flash, Adobe does not have flash out for x86_64 Linux, Flash is a proprietary closed platform.

Re: Javascript or Flash Widgets debate. Help me choose what to use.

#4

Post by jey » Thu, Aug 16, 2007, 4:41 AM UTC

jsjenkins168 wrote: post #3

I personally prefer lightweight javascript over the often slower flash equivalent. Rich UI functionality is generally easier to implement in flash though. But this can be a heated debate so watch out.. Some things to consider: The iPhone supports javascript but not flash, Adobe does not have flash out for x86_64 Linux, Flash is a proprietary closed platform.

hmm? flash seems faster and more responsive than javascript manipulating browser DOM trees.

Re: Javascript or Flash Widgets debate. Help me choose what to use.

#5

Post by codeLullaby » Thu, Aug 16, 2007, 4:49 AM UTC

jsjenkins168 wrote: post #3

I personally prefer lightweight javascript over the often slower flash equivalent. Rich UI functionality is generally easier to implement in flash though. But this can be a heated debate so watch out.. Some things to consider: The iPhone supports javascript but not flash, Adobe does not have flash out for x86_64 Linux, Flash is a proprietary closed platform.

"slower flash equivalent" ?

The basic file size of an empty swf file is approximately 35 bytes.Apart from this 35 bytes, everything else is developer contribution. The file size depends on what kind of assets you want to embed in your flash widget. If you embed more images,mp3s etc., the file size will increase. One of the greatest strengths of flash is the speed at which the 'flash virtual machine' initializes. A swf file churned out by a good developer will perform well.

Having said that i would personally prefer to go with a javascript version, if the widget doesnt require video or hardcore visual effects.Why lock yourself in a closed piece of software unless its acutely necessary ?

A major disadvantage of using flash is that, flash by default will place itself on top of everything else in a webpage. A work around for this is to set wmode as "transparent". But this will drastically reduce performance of flash widget in Gecko browsers.And hence, as far as possible, use javascript.

Re: Javascript or Flash Widgets debate. Help me choose what to use.

#6

Post by bosky101 » Thu, Aug 16, 2007, 4:51 AM UTC

for anything that needs to push data frequently - javascript/ajax for anything that needs to pull data frequently - flash

and dont worry about that javascript widgets slowing thing! the web as we know it ,is fragmented in data anyway.

Re: Javascript or Flash Widgets debate. Help me choose what to use.

#7

Post by jsjenkins168 » Thu, Aug 16, 2007, 5:37 AM UTC

jey wrote: post #4

jsjenkins168 wrote: post #3

I personally prefer lightweight javascript over the often slower flash equivalent. Rich UI functionality is generally easier to implement in flash though. But this can be a heated debate so watch out.. Some things to consider: The iPhone supports javascript but not flash, Adobe does not have flash out for x86_64 Linux, Flash is a proprietary closed platform.

hmm? flash seems faster and more responsive than javascript manipulating browser DOM trees.

I was curious, so did some searching: http://oddhammer.com/actionscriptperformance/set4/

Flash 9 is considerably faster than previous flash versions at most tasks, and is indeed faster than javascript for the most part too. Doesnt paint the whole picture, but at least gives an idea.

Re: Javascript or Flash Widgets debate. Help me choose what to use.

#8

Post by darius » Thu, Aug 16, 2007, 9:00 AM UTC

codeLullaby wrote: post #5

jsjenkins168 wrote: post #3

I personally prefer lightweight javascript over the often slower flash equivalent. Rich UI functionality is generally easier to implement in flash though. But this can be a heated debate so watch out.. Some things to consider: The iPhone supports javascript but not flash, Adobe does not have flash out for x86_64 Linux, Flash is a proprietary closed platform.

"slower flash equivalent" ? The basic file size of an empty swf file is approximately 35 bytes.Apart from this 35 bytes, everything else is developer contribution. The file size depends on what kind of assets you want to embed in your flash widget. If you embed more images,mp3s etc., the file size will increase. One of the greatest strengths of flash is the speed at which the 'flash virtual machine' initializes. A sw…

Keep hearing the same 'closed software' regarding flash and I don't understand why. There are quite a few open source platforms that produce swfs (open laszlo, aptana, even flex is open source now). Regarding the flash player, it is not any more closed software than IE is.

Also isn't it nice not to have to write javascript code for each browser that exists out there?

Re: Javascript or Flash Widgets debate. Help me choose what to use.

#9

Post by epi0Bauqu » Thu, Aug 16, 2007, 11:20 AM UTC

Pretty much everyone has JavaScript. While for what you are doing, probably everyone in your target audience has Flash, but keep in mind for different versions the % of the general population that has it installed is not 100%: http://www.adobe.com/products/player_census/flashplayer/vers...

Adobe (who has an incentive to inflate their numbers though I'm not saying they are) puts Flash 9 at 84.0%. Below that you get into the high 90s. But if your whole product is based on a viral loop, and you can achieve the same thing with JavaScript, that few % can be important when compounded over time.

Re: Javascript or Flash Widgets debate. Help me choose what to use.

#10

Post by staunch » Thu, Aug 16, 2007, 12:07 PM UTC

codeLullaby wrote: post #5

jsjenkins168 wrote: post #3

I personally prefer lightweight javascript over the often slower flash equivalent. Rich UI functionality is generally easier to implement in flash though. But this can be a heated debate so watch out.. Some things to consider: The iPhone supports javascript but not flash, Adobe does not have flash out for x86_64 Linux, Flash is a proprietary closed platform.

"slower flash equivalent" ? The basic file size of an empty swf file is approximately 35 bytes.Apart from this 35 bytes, everything else is developer contribution. The file size depends on what kind of assets you want to embed in your flash widget. If you embed more images,mp3s etc., the file size will increase. One of the greatest strengths of flash is the speed at which the 'flash virtual machine' initializes. A sw…

It's true that the Flash VM is quite fast itself, at parsing, rendering, etc. But Flash feels much more sluggish for most things. Try any largish interface in Flash to see for yourself. Imagine Gmail in Flash, it would be much less snappy. Flash is an entirely different platform inside your browser with all its own facilities. Javascript can be used in a lightweight way on top of the native HTML/image/CSS stuff your browser is so good at.