Do cookie-free analytics need cookie banners?

#1

Post by birjolaxew » Wed, Jan 22, 2025, 1:18 PM UTC

Do cookie-free analytics need cookie banners?
jfagerberg.me

Re: Do cookie-free analytics need cookie banners?

#2

Post by Vampiero » Thu, Jan 23, 2025, 8:08 AM UTC

If they're doing fingerprinting then they're clearly collecting too much data. If they need javascript to collect their metrics, they're clearly collecting too much data.

Re: Do cookie-free analytics need cookie banners?

#3

Post by choeger » Sat, Jan 25, 2025, 7:34 AM UTC

In the end, it all boils down to this:

1. It is trivial to have a metric about how many requests were made for a link on a site, say a/

2. It is legally very much non-trivial to have a metric about how many requests were made to a/ followed by requests to b/

One way to solve 2. would be to change links based on earlier interaction server-side. So instead of [a/, b/], the requests would be [a/, a.b/] IMO, this should be legal, but might not under strict interpretation of the law.

Re: Do cookie-free analytics need cookie banners?

#4

Post by archerx » Sat, Jan 25, 2025, 7:50 AM UTC

This whole cookie banner situation is a disaster. Companies know that you will not accept their cookies and have decided to use the "legitimate interest" loop hole. So if you select reject all cookie, the legitimate interest ones are not rejected unless you go an uncheck them manually.

https://old.reddit.com/r/mildlyinfuriating/comments/1cn306c/...

Here is an example of what I am talking about, I think some companies are catching on and hiding it better but those soulless marketers will find anyway to track you.

What can you do about it? Poison their data.

https://adnauseam.io/

Re: Do cookie-free analytics need cookie banners?

#5

Post by MartijnHols » Sat, Jan 25, 2025, 7:51 AM UTC

Vampiero wrote: post #2

If they're doing fingerprinting then they're clearly collecting too much data. If they need javascript to collect their metrics, they're clearly collecting too much data.

I use JS to record the amount of visitors (technically pageviews) that reached the end of an article on my blog to get a sense for completion rate. Surely that is not too much?

Re: Do cookie-free analytics need cookie banners?

#6

Post by bluepuma77 » Sat, Jan 25, 2025, 7:52 AM UTC

choeger wrote: post #3

In the end, it all boils down to this: 1. It is trivial to have a metric about how many requests were made for a link on a site, say a/ 2. It is legally very much non-trivial to have a metric about how many requests were made to a/ followed by requests to b/ One way to solve 2. would be to change links based on earlier interaction server-side. So instead of [a/, b/], the requests would be [a/, a.b/] IMO, this should…

Sounds like the early days of the web, when cookies weren’t widely used.

User sessions were created with a URL query parameter, like `?sessionid=`, and every page would pick up the sessionid and include it in every link on the page.

Re: Do cookie-free analytics need cookie banners?

#7

Post by raverbashing » Sat, Jan 25, 2025, 8:04 AM UTC

I disagree with the author's assessment:

- There is no way the browser can be instructed to not send the browser agent. Moreso it could be argued that this is needed for making the site work (legitimate interest). Though yes, if it's an extra call to an external URL I would say this is problematic

- As mentioned by the Plausible opinion, it is not being stored. It is also not an unique identifier

As an addendum, when legal discussions happen here it seems they focus a lot more on the fine print than on the big picture. And while the fine print does have its importance, the bigger picture is what has the most impact

(though yeah I agree with the 2012 Working Party opinion there)

Re: Do cookie-free analytics need cookie banners?

#8

Post by fguerraz » Sat, Jan 25, 2025, 8:05 AM UTC

Do you really need analytics that much?

Enjoy my cookie and analytics free website: https://www.ZoneHero.io

I had to resist a lot of temptations, but hey, no banners!

Re: Do cookie-free analytics need cookie banners?

#9

Post by oneeyedpigeon » Sat, Jan 25, 2025, 8:06 AM UTC

archerx wrote: post #4

This whole cookie banner situation is a disaster. Companies know that you will not accept their cookies and have decided to use the "legitimate interest" loop hole. So if you select reject all cookie, the legitimate interest ones are not rejected unless you go an uncheck them manually. https://old.reddit.com/r/mildlyinfuriating/comments/1cn306c/... Here is an example of what I am talking about, I think some companies…

> https://adnauseam.io/

I'm not sure this is a good thing. Wouldn't this make advertisers think their ads are doing better than they are? Which would then encourage them to advertise even more?

Re: Do cookie-free analytics need cookie banners?

#10

Post by archerx » Sat, Jan 25, 2025, 8:21 AM UTC

oneeyedpigeon wrote: post #9

archerx wrote: post #4

This whole cookie banner situation is a disaster. Companies know that you will not accept their cookies and have decided to use the "legitimate interest" loop hole. So if you select reject all cookie, the legitimate interest ones are not rejected unless you go an uncheck them manually. https://old.reddit.com/r/mildlyinfuriating/comments/1cn306c/... Here is an example of what I am talking about, I think some companies…

> https://adnauseam.io/ I'm not sure this is a good thing. Wouldn't this make advertisers think their ads are doing better than they are? Which would then encourage them to advertise even more?

No, it will ad noise to their data and make their profile of me a mess and very inaccurate. If they make models from this data it will be fundamentally flawed (Garbage in = Garbage out)