Kaspersky Lab Defeats Patent Troll
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Kaspersky Lab Defeats Patent Troll
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Re: Kaspersky Lab Defeats Patent Troll
#2Re: Kaspersky Lab Defeats Patent Troll
#3Awesome. It is refreshing to see companies not only stand up to the trolls but to actually win. We need more of this.
Re: Kaspersky Lab Defeats Patent Troll
#4There are a couple of ways a plaintiff can lose. (1) the court finds that the defendant did not do anything that is covered by any of the valid patent claims. (2) the court finds that the patent should not have issued in the first place, due to a problem such as prior art making it not non-obvious, the patentee not being the inventor, and so on.
Knowing this is important because it determines who this case affects those who are not Kaspersky. If Kaspersky won because they simply did not do anything that is covered by the patent, but the patent is valid, then everyone else still has to worry about that patent.
If Kaspersky won because the court found that the patent is invalid, then we can all scratch this patent off our lists of patents we have to worry about.
(And all of this, of course, depends on what happens in the appeals court if the plaintiff appeals).
Re: Kaspersky Lab Defeats Patent Troll
#5That being said, they do ship some really buggy stuff that is an absolute pain to deal with. For a couple of years I had to deal with support of a networking application and every time a new type of bug report cropped up, the first question was "do you have Kaspersky installed" inevitably followed by "yes, we do." I just can't tell how many men-hours were sunk into chasing problems that were ultimately created by bugs in their resident antivirus shields. It was few years ago, perhaps things have changed for the better.
Re: Kaspersky Lab Defeats Patent Troll
#6The story is missing a key detail: HOW did they win in court? There are a couple of ways a plaintiff can lose. (1) the court finds that the defendant did not do anything that is covered by any of the valid patent claims. (2) the court finds that the patent should not have issued in the first place, due to a problem such as prior art making it not non-obvious, the patentee not being the inventor, and so on. Knowing th…
http://eugenekaspersky.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/dec.png
http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&js...
upd: court order: http://www.scribd.com/doc/98161737/Https-Ecf-txed-Uscourts-g...
http://www.scribd.com/doc/98161154/Https-Ecf-txed-Uscourts-g...
Re: Kaspersky Lab Defeats Patent Troll
#7The story is missing a key detail: HOW did they win in court? There are a couple of ways a plaintiff can lose. (1) the court finds that the defendant did not do anything that is covered by any of the valid patent claims. (2) the court finds that the patent should not have issued in the first place, due to a problem such as prior art making it not non-obvious, the patentee not being the inventor, and so on. Knowing th…
Re: Kaspersky Lab Defeats Patent Troll
#8The story is missing a key detail: HOW did they win in court? There are a couple of ways a plaintiff can lose. (1) the court finds that the defendant did not do anything that is covered by any of the valid patent claims. (2) the court finds that the patent should not have issued in the first place, due to a problem such as prior art making it not non-obvious, the patentee not being the inventor, and so on. Knowing th…
From what I understand, if a case is dismissed with prejudice the charges can not be refiled. However, I am not sure if that also means the Plaintiff can not appeal.
Re: Kaspersky Lab Defeats Patent Troll
#9The story is missing a key detail: HOW did they win in court? There are a couple of ways a plaintiff can lose. (1) the court finds that the defendant did not do anything that is covered by any of the valid patent claims. (2) the court finds that the patent should not have issued in the first place, due to a problem such as prior art making it not non-obvious, the patentee not being the inventor, and so on. Knowing th…
Troll's claims were "dismissed with prejudice", according to Kaspersky's personal blog. So, i suppose, this means that effectively the patent is invalid. http://eugenekaspersky.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/dec.png http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&js... upd: court order: http://www.scribd.com/doc/98161737/Https-Ecf-txed-Uscourts-g... http://www.scribd.com/doc/98161154/Https-Ecf-txed-Uscourts-g...
e: Not sure about this, but the Order also suggests that some of the Troll's claims survived summary judgment and are proceeding to trial, so it's not clear to me how complete of a victory this is. I'll check the underlying order (this ruling was on a motion for reconsideration) and the PACER docket and see what I can figure out.
Re: Kaspersky Lab Defeats Patent Troll
#10Earlier quoted context omitted.
Troll's claims were "dismissed with prejudice", according to Kaspersky's personal blog. So, i suppose, this means that effectively the patent is invalid. http://eugenekaspersky.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/dec.png http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&js... upd: court order: http://www.scribd.com/doc/98161737/Https-Ecf-txed-Uscourts-g... http://www.scribd.com/doc/98161154/Https-Ecf-txed-Uscourts-g...
The Order indicates that Kaspersky won summary judgment on noninfringement grounds, not invalidity grounds. e: Not sure about this, but the Order also suggests that some of the Troll's claims survived summary judgment and are proceeding to trial, so it's not clear to me how complete of a victory this is. I'll check the underlying order (this ruling was on a motion for reconsideration) and the PACER docket and see wha…
The Troll was alleging many different "flavors" of infringement that broadly fall into two categories: direct and indirect. Direct infringement would be if Kaspersky itself were violating the patent, for example by using patented software itself. Indirect infringement would be if Kaspersky were inducing others to violate the patent, for example by selling patented software to customers.
Kaspersky moved for summary judgment, which is essentially asking the Court to rule in your favor without a trial because the evidence is so overwhelmingly in your favor that no reasonable jury could find against you and a trial would just be a waste of time.
Kaspersky successfully argued that it wasn't directly infringing on the patents because the patents described a method for having a computer carry out some process, and in order to infringe, Kaspersky would have had to actually carry out that process, rather than selling software that carried out that process.
Kaspersky successfully argued that it wasn't indirectly infringing on the patent because all of its customers were covered by preexisting license agreements. Unfortunately, the key facts on this claim are redacted.
The Court granted summary judgment to Kaspersky on these grounds on most of the Troll's claims, but there were a few remaining claims that fell outside of Kaspersky's arguments. (These seemingly related to specific manipulations of computer hardware? Not really sure, don't understand the technology and don't want to learn it, already wasting too much time on this LOL)
After the Court granted summary judgment, the Federal Circuit handed down some new case law that was directly on-point. This new law made it clear that Kaspersky was going to win on those few claims that survived through summary judgment.
Kaspersky moved for reconsideration, essentially asking the Court to consider this new case and revise the original summary judgment order to dispose of the rest of the claims as well. Unfortunately, there are some fairly strict timing rules involved in moving for reconsideration and Kaspersky didn't comply with them, so it wasn't able to win this motion.
However, the writing was on the wall at this point, and the Troll apparently realized there was no way it could win at trial. On June 15, the Troll voluntarily dismissed the rest of the claims, effectively giving up and going home.
Congrats on reading this far. Happy to try to answer questions if you have any. Others who might know more about the case should jump in and supplement or correct me if I missed or misunderstood anything.
e: Responsive to the original parent comment in this thread:
1. Given that the Troll voluntarily dismissed its claims - essentially conceding defeat - I would be surprised if the Troll appealed. However, there might be some grounds for appeal in earlier nondispositive motions relating to interpretation of the patent claims.
2. Kaspersky won on noninfringement grounds, but they structured their noninfringement argument in a very elegant and powerful way that essentially renders the patent-in-suit toothless while still technically valid. This isn't legal advice and everyone knows it would be idiotic to rely on a HN posting in making any decisions with potential legal consequences, but I personally would go ahead and "scratch this patent off our lists." One down, several hundred thousand to go...