The Shroud of Turin: History and Legends
michaelshermer.substack.com
The Shroud of Turin: History and Legends
1–10 of 163 posts
Re: The Shroud of Turin: History and Legends
#2I don't get why it couldn't just be anybody's shroud. Didn't everyone at that time get a shroud.
Re: The Shroud of Turin: History and Legends
#3Whether it is 14th century or an authentic relic, I still believe it's simply amazing to behold. We can explain what it's made of and guess at how old it is, and we can guess at its provenance and history, but there's simply no good explanation of how it was imprinted. The photo-negative imprint is nothing short of miraculous to me. Perhaps it's a miraculous forgery--doesn't matter anymore.
The crucifix in a local parish was commissioned just a few years ago, and the artisan who sculpted it in Mexico used the Shroud as a guide for the imagery. The painful stripes of scourging, the dripping of blood, the skinned knees, the pathetic expression on this man's face: they are all quite realistic and they perfectly evoke Christ's suffering for me, and for hundreds of other parishioners, especially the donors who contributed to beautify the sanctuary.
There are plenty of truly authenticated relics -- actual body parts of saints -- and I've come into contact with some of them. It's really amazing to have this connection to holiness. And you need to really understand the relationship of Christians with relics. The relic has no power in itself. The relic is not a miraculous talisman. The relic is simply a physical manifestation of a saint, who is very much alive to us. Though we cannot embrace such a saint, or hear them speak to us, they are present to us through the relic, and we invoke their intercession while touching the relic, because body and soul are one, and will be reunited.
My faith would not be shaken if this were proved fake. I simply don't rely on archaeology to prove my faith. Nobody should. I believe that archaeology and 99% of today's Scripture scholarship is an exercise in futility and misdirection. Live the life or don't live it. Be an atheist if you want. But don't tell us what to believe.
Re: The Shroud of Turin: History and Legends
#4I don't get why it couldn't just be anybody's shroud. Didn't everyone at that time get a shroud.
your family has been passing down a family bible for many years. your father gives it to you and says, "this was your great-great-great-great grandfather's, he brought it from the old country, and it has the names of all the babies born into the family back then.
you say "eh, it could be anybody's, everybody had a bible and lots of kids back then" and you throw it away.
you're right, no way to prove it was his and you can live your life unencumbered by the past, no point in looking for meaning.
Re: The Shroud of Turin: History and Legends
#5I don't get why it couldn't just be anybody's shroud. Didn't everyone at that time get a shroud.
Unconnected to whom it actually is, the mystery of how the image was generated is enough of a mystery to keep digging for answers.
Re: The Shroud of Turin: History and Legends
#6I don't get why it couldn't just be anybody's shroud. Didn't everyone at that time get a shroud.
There was never a time in which "everyone" got a shroud. Even in Jesus's time, burying someone in a shroud was a distinctly Jewish custom, and using linen did not become fashionable until after Jesus's death [1] [2]. Furthermore, for a crucifixion victim to be buried at all, let alone in a shroud, would be extremely unusual. It was generally part of the punishment for the body to be left on the cross after death to be displayed and consumed by scavengers. When the remains were finally removed they were generally disposed of in mass graves. [3]
[1] https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/5282847/jewis...
Re: The Shroud of Turin: History and Legends
#7The clergy in the 14th century were absolutely unmoored. Everything was for sale. You could pre-pay for absolution for future sins. They sold relics of everything - Jesus hair, even parts of the “burning bush” from the Old Testament. The first crusade brought back real treasures and relics that made the perfect pretense for a century of grifters.
That was all pretty much stopped later that century though by a few bad things like the mini ice age, papal schism, 100 years war, and the Black Death.
Re: The Shroud of Turin: History and Legends
#8Whether it is 14th century or an authentic relic, I still believe it's simply amazing to behold. We can explain what it's made of and guess at how old it is, and we can guess at its provenance and history, but there's simply no good explanation of how it was imprinted. The photo-negative imprint is nothing short of miraculous to me. Perhaps it's a miraculous forgery--doesn't matter anymore. The crucifix in a local pa…
Agreed, there's so much here to be thankful for on its own merits.
Both the fact that such fine and rare objects still exist, and our incredible techniques for studying the ancient past.
Re: The Shroud of Turin: History and Legends
#9Whether it is 14th century or an authentic relic, I still believe it's simply amazing to behold. We can explain what it's made of and guess at how old it is, and we can guess at its provenance and history, but there's simply no good explanation of how it was imprinted. The photo-negative imprint is nothing short of miraculous to me. Perhaps it's a miraculous forgery--doesn't matter anymore. The crucifix in a local pa…
[flagged]
Re: The Shroud of Turin: History and Legends
#10I don't get why it couldn't just be anybody's shroud. Didn't everyone at that time get a shroud.
First of all, the thing is not a shroud, it's essentially a 14th century painting, created as one of a myriad fake relics for money and fame.
Second of all, if you believed it were a real ancient shroud, you would have to explain how the image on it was produced. Corpses don't leave images on shrouds, and even if it were true that everyone in ancient Israel were wrapped in a linen shroud when they died, people certainly didn't paint those shrouds.