ESR: Abusing Alan Turing
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ESR: Abusing Alan Turing
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Re: ESR: Abusing Alan Turing
#2"The centennial of Alan Turing’s birth brings us the news that Alan Turing probably did not commit suicide by eating a poisoned apple, was not depressed at the time of his death, and that the hormone treatments intended to suppress his homosexual urges had been discontinued a year before he died."
Raymond is referring to this BBC article: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-18561092
It was (distastefully IMHO) published on the day of the centenary and makes a number of schoolboy errors about Turing and suicide:
1. It omits to mention that a significant amount of cyanide was found in his stomach in liquid form. But does mention the fact that the 'apple was not tested for cyanide'. If you omit the former and mention the latter it sounds suspicious. And why would you test the apple for cyanide?
2. The article makes great play of Turing's happiness shortly before his death. This misses the fact that many suicides are outwardly 'happy' before taking their own lives and is so basic that I'm amazed the BBC allowed it.
3. The article plays up Turing's mess in the house and mentions: "The electrolysis experiment was wired into the ceiling light socket.". This was a common practice in those days and I remember adapters wiring things into light sockets as a child in the UK.
4. The article also likes to try to downplay everything negative. For example, "It is often repeated that the chemicals caused him to grow breasts, though Turing is only known to have mentioned this once." The second clause seems to be the most important.
5. The article is rather ugly in that it engages in a bunch of speculation and then ends with the 'expert' saying it's best not to speculate.
But the worst part of the article is that it contains nothing new. The doubt about Turing's suicide is well known and documented by his mother, Hodges and Leavitt. There was nothing newsworthy in the story.
"More: behind much of today’s hagiography there seems to lurk a sort of perverse insistence that if Turing hadn’t been gay and a suicide he would be less apt for veneration, as a founder of computer science or anything else."
I'm not sure where Raymond gets this.
Re: ESR: Abusing Alan Turing
#3"The centennial of Alan Turing’s birth brings us the news that Alan Turing probably did not commit suicide by eating a poisoned apple, was not depressed at the time of his death, and that the hormone treatments intended to suppress his homosexual urges had been discontinued a year before he died." Raymond is referring to this BBC article: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-18561092 It was (distastefully IM…
the BBC piece is one of those tawdry - hype up a new conspiracy - pieces that 'journalists' use to try and add some interest to story where everybody has the same news. It was the same with all the new 'theories' around the Titanic sinking a few months ago.
ESR's point is perhaps best made by Einstein's quote:
"If I am proved correct,the Germans will call me a German, the Swiss will call me a Swiss citizen, and the French will call me a great scientist.
If relativity is proved wrong, the French will call me a Swiss, the Swiss will call me a German and the Germans will call me a Jew."
People who don't know an Entscheidungsproblem from a hole in the ground will latch onto this to claim Turing for their own team that: "He was great and English", "He was great and from Cambridge", "He was great and worked at Manchester", "He was great and at King's" , "He was great and gay:, "He was great and a marathon runner" ..etc...
Re: ESR: Abusing Alan Turing
#4"The centennial of Alan Turing’s birth brings us the news that Alan Turing probably did not commit suicide by eating a poisoned apple, was not depressed at the time of his death, and that the hormone treatments intended to suppress his homosexual urges had been discontinued a year before he died." Raymond is referring to this BBC article: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-18561092 It was (distastefully IM…
> 4. The article also likes to try to downplay everything negative. For example, "It is often repeated that the chemicals caused him to grow breasts, though Turing is only known to have mentioned this once." The second clause seems to be the most important.
Well, thank goodness, maybe he didn't actually grow breasts. Must not have actually have been that bad being forced to take hormones for no good reason.
There's also a very, uhm, disheartening tone that a lot of commenters on that blog post are taking -- what sort of people is ESR attracting? People are suggesting that Turing's castigation was a preventable result of his homosexuality he should have predicted and avoided. "Just stay in the closet and shut your mouth."
Gross. Really, really gross. ESR should be ashamed.
Re: ESR: Abusing Alan Turing
#5I try to ignore this stuff. It doesn't really matter if he committed suicide or not, and the folk mythology is just silly.
If you want to learn more about Turing and the Entscheidungsproblem I recommend Charles Petzold's "The Annotated Turing". It has some great supplemental explanations to go along with Turing's paper plus interesting historical details. Petzold strikes a good balance between presenting the actual work and talking about Turing's personal life.
Re: ESR: Abusing Alan Turing
#6I must be missing something. Is there anyone who actually thinks Turing wouldn't be worth remembering if he hadn't been mistreated for being gay?
Re: ESR: Abusing Alan Turing
#7"The centennial of Alan Turing’s birth brings us the news that Alan Turing probably did not commit suicide by eating a poisoned apple, was not depressed at the time of his death, and that the hormone treatments intended to suppress his homosexual urges had been discontinued a year before he died." Raymond is referring to this BBC article: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-18561092 It was (distastefully IM…
To corroborate #2: One of the things often said about depression and suicide is that severely depressed people are too depressed to have the energy to commit suicide. It's only when they start coming out of the pit and feel a little better that they'll get the nerves. That's why depressed people are (or at least should be) monitored like crazy when you start giving them antidepressants. It's a cruel irony, but making a depressed person feel better can actually make them more dangerous to themselves. Unfortunately, people see their friends and family starting to claw their way out from the pit of despair, so of course they seem "so happy" (comparatively).
Re: ESR: Abusing Alan Turing
#8"The centennial of Alan Turing’s birth brings us the news that Alan Turing probably did not commit suicide by eating a poisoned apple, was not depressed at the time of his death, and that the hormone treatments intended to suppress his homosexual urges had been discontinued a year before he died." Raymond is referring to this BBC article: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-18561092 It was (distastefully IM…
To corroborate #2: One of the things often said about depression and suicide is that severely depressed people are too depressed to have the energy to commit suicide. It's only when they start coming out of the pit and feel a little better that they'll get the nerves. That's why depressed people are (or at least should be) monitored like crazy when you start giving them antidepressants. It's a cruel irony, but making…
Similarly, the acceptance of suicide as an out can cause them to feel happy. They won't tell anyone their plan, but they have one, and its removed a burden they felt.
The author of that article seems wholly unaware of the nature of depression. When forced into social situations, you learn to hide it. You act happy, tell jokes, disarm the situation if anyone sees you looking sad (I'm tired, have I told you I'm an insomniac?) or crying (allergies, contacts).
Re: ESR: Abusing Alan Turing
#9I must be missing something. Is there anyone who actually thinks Turing wouldn't be worth remembering if he hadn't been mistreated for being gay?
Yes. Turing, Church, Shannon, Kolmogorov, a whole section of thought, was started by these people. We forget that sometimes.
Re: ESR: Abusing Alan Turing
#10I must be missing something. Is there anyone who actually thinks Turing wouldn't be worth remembering if he hadn't been mistreated for being gay?
Yes. Turing, Church, Shannon, Kolmogorov, a whole section of thought, was started by these people. We forget that sometimes.
where by "yes", you mean "no". yes?