Wind power and solar photovoltaics have higher energy returns than fossil fuels
1–10 of 23 posts
Re: Wind power and solar photovoltaics have higher energy returns than fossil fuels
#2Any non paywall version?
Re: Wind power and solar photovoltaics have higher energy returns than fossil fuels
#3Was that ever in dispute amongst serious people?
Re: Wind power and solar photovoltaics have higher energy returns than fossil fuels
#4Was that ever in dispute amongst serious people?
No, but there was a dispute amongst goofy people and the result looked much like the three stooges
Re: Wind power and solar photovoltaics have higher energy returns than fossil fuels
#5Was that ever in dispute amongst serious people?
I have a bridge in manhattan to sell to you if you believe this obvious propaganda.
How can you people be so gullible?
Re: Wind power and solar photovoltaics have higher energy returns than fossil fuels
#6Re: Wind power and solar photovoltaics have higher energy returns than fossil fuels
#7Was that ever in dispute amongst serious people?
I have a bridge in manhattan to sell to you if you believe this obvious propaganda. How can you people be so gullible?
Mark my words, in 20 years all of us will be lamenting those energy policies that will have brought us to third-world style poverty, while frantically learning mandarim to have a chance to migrate to China.
And the really fun part about it, is that we won't even have money to mitigate the effects of climate change, because we literally chased windmills instead of being realistic and pragmatic and investing on sound and proven technologies like nuclear instead of throwing money at intermittent sources that made energy absurdly more expensive in places like Germany, UK and South Australia, all the while dreaming that batteries will be enough to save us.
Of course, the wall street folks and the usual hustlers behind this, they will have already relocated to greener pastures leaving us to pay the bill.
Re: Wind power and solar photovoltaics have higher energy returns than fossil fuels
#8Was that ever in dispute amongst serious people?
Yes. We all saw what happened to Germany when they pretended wind/solar was competitive with fossil fuels in the Energiewende. It was a clear step backwards. Countries utilising cheap energy have energy (and electricity) profiles that look like China, not Germany.
The fact that now renewables seem to be honest-to-goodness competitive is big news. If serious people should be investing in renewables which is a huge change in the economic equilibrium.
Re: Wind power and solar photovoltaics have higher energy returns than fossil fuels
#9Was that ever in dispute amongst serious people?
Yes. We all saw what happened to Germany when they pretended wind/solar was competitive with fossil fuels in the Energiewende. It was a clear step backwards. Countries utilising cheap energy have energy (and electricity) profiles that look like China, not Germany. The fact that now renewables seem to be honest-to-goodness competitive is big news. If serious people should be investing in renewables which is a huge cha…
Germany helped drive down renewables costs. Someone had to eat the beginning of the S curve.
Lazy laggards are receiving the benefits of those investments previously made.
https://energytransition.org/2016/01/how-germany-helped-brin...
> “The Germans were not really buying power — they were buying a price decline,” Hal Harvey, a US clean energy expert.
Re: Wind power and solar photovoltaics have higher energy returns than fossil fuels
#10Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have a bridge in manhattan to sell to you if you believe this obvious propaganda. How can you people be so gullible?
Mark my words, in 20 years all of us will be lamenting those energy policies that will have brought us to third-world style poverty, while frantically learning mandarim to have a chance to migrate to China. And the really fun part about it, is that we won't even have money to mitigate the effects of climate change, because we literally chased windmills instead of being realistic and pragmatic and investing on sound a…
> obvious propaganda
> Mark my words [..] brought us to third-world style poverty, while frantically learning mandarim to have a chance to migrate to China
a) What's your reliable source of information that trumps all other institutions that say the opposite?; And
b) what makes them more reliable, says you?
If you're going to make sensational claims, you better have exceptional evidence to back yourself. Otherwise you're just making noise.
> Germany
Should never have shut down their nuclear, sure.
> South Australia
There was like, the one incident, which people like to point at and go 'See! It doesn't work!', when actually it was because transmission lines fell over.
Here's the latest quarterly report of the wholesale market for Australia, by state (note figure 1):
https://www.aer.gov.au/system/files/2024-04/Q1%202024%20Whol...
> sound and proven technologies like nuclear
The lead time for this is 15 years. It's the only energy generation technology that has become less economical with time, precisely because it isn't 'sound' without strict oversight. Gas peakers are the more timely and economical option.
> the wall street folks and the usual hustlers behind this
The wall street folks won't put their money behind something that won't see returns, but yet that's exactly what they've been doing, and continue to do. China and India (and the rest of the global south) are building their own renewable capacity at absurd scale, not because of wall street shills, but because it's the most economical way to generate power.