Client Runs on Waterfall

#1

Post by pxue » Mon, Apr 29, 2024, 1:46 AM UTC

I'm secretly loving it.

I got hired to migrate a client's existing excel spreadsheet internal tool over to a customized React SPA.

This is the first contract where I'm not rushing around every sprint trying to piece together half baked features and pushing them out the door. While not strictly waterfall (more kanban) I'm enjoying the heck out of the process either way:

• Everything is rigorously tested and documented.

• Nothing gets released until all the requirements are met. No sprints.

• We celebrate every release.

• Clients give feedback, we spend time talking about it internally, and then do proposal, design and then developers come up with architecture docs and we talk about it some more.

As a 34 year old dev I'm loving this.

Am I just getting old?

Re: Client Runs on Waterfall

#2

Post by GianFabien » Mon, Apr 29, 2024, 3:55 AM UTC

Enjoy! Clients like that are the exception.

I'm assuming that the requirements are documented and not altered every other day. Have to wonder whether your client is an engineering (not software) or related firm where they do detailed design before building.

Re: Client Runs on Waterfall

#3

Post by bradley13 » Mon, Apr 29, 2024, 4:44 AM UTC

Sounds like a client with a clue. Congrats on winning the lottery.

Agile development certainly has its place. Sadly, in most projects, it has become an excuse for clients who don't know what they want, combined with managers who are unwilling to force clarity in the requirements.

Re: Client Runs on Waterfall

#4

Post by throwaway38375 » Mon, Apr 29, 2024, 10:52 AM UTC

bradley13 wrote: post #3

Sounds like a client with a clue. Congrats on winning the lottery. Agile development certainly has its place. Sadly, in most projects, it has become an excuse for clients who don't know what they want, combined with managers who are unwilling to force clarity in the requirements.

> Sadly, in most projects, it has become an excuse for clients who don't know what they want

Thank you for summarising why I hate agile so concisely.

I don't hate agile itself, more the clueless people who think agile replaces requirement gathering and planning.

Re: Client Runs on Waterfall

#5

Post by 2rsf » Mon, Apr 29, 2024, 11:21 AM UTC

You are not getting old, you simply met reality. What you are describing is a functioning, mature and high performing company vs the opposite. It has nothing directly related to Agile vs Waterfall.

Re: Client Runs on Waterfall

#6

Post by jf22 » Mon, Apr 29, 2024, 11:50 AM UTC

throwaway38375 wrote: post #4

bradley13 wrote: post #3

Sounds like a client with a clue. Congrats on winning the lottery. Agile development certainly has its place. Sadly, in most projects, it has become an excuse for clients who don't know what they want, combined with managers who are unwilling to force clarity in the requirements.

> Sadly, in most projects, it has become an excuse for clients who don't know what they want Thank you for summarising why I hate agile so concisely. I don't hate agile itself, more the clueless people who think agile replaces requirement gathering and planning.

Agile does replace requirement gathering and planning, though.

A core Agile tenant is responding to change rather than following a plan.

Re: Client Runs on Waterfall

#7

Post by 95014_refugee » Mon, Apr 29, 2024, 2:52 PM UTC

At 34, not old. Maturing, perhaps.

It’s worth reading the original Waterfall paper. If you’ve only ever heard of it as the bogeyman, it might surprise you.

From your tone here, I think you are seeing “people over process” play out in your context. Celebrations? Talking? More talking? Time to do work? These all smell like a sensible organisation doing sensible things. Congratulations, you lucky &^%*&^%&^.

Re: Client Runs on Waterfall

#8

Post by codingdave » Mon, Apr 29, 2024, 3:33 PM UTC

jf22 wrote: post #6

throwaway38375 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sadly, in most projects, it has become an excuse for clients who don't know what they want Thank you for summarising why I hate agile so concisely. I don't hate agile itself, more the clueless people who think agile replaces requirement gathering and planning.

Agile does replace requirement gathering and planning, though. A core Agile tenant is responding to change rather than following a plan.

The agile manifesto does not reject planning. It just says adapting to change is more important:

"That is, while there is value in the items on the right, we value the items on the left more."

You still absolutely get requirements and plan. You just do it in smaller, more granular pieces.

Re: Client Runs on Waterfall

#9

Post by philomath_mn » Mon, Apr 29, 2024, 3:37 PM UTC

A lot of companies heard that big design up front (BDUF) was bad so they decided to do no design or planning up front.

You can't anticipate everything like true waterfall expects, but you also can't just yolo into a sprint without some effort spent on specs / designs / architecture / etc.

Sounds like your client found a balanced approach.

Re: Client Runs on Waterfall

#10

Post by jf22 » Mon, Apr 29, 2024, 3:45 PM UTC

codingdave wrote: post #8

jf22 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agile does replace requirement gathering and planning, though. A core Agile tenant is responding to change rather than following a plan.

The agile manifesto does not reject planning. It just says adapting to change is more important: "That is, while there is value in the items on the right, we value the items on the left more." You still absolutely get requirements and plan. You just do it in smaller, more granular pieces.

What does requirement gathering and planning look like to you?