Socioeconomic status and the relationship between the SAT and GPA (2009) [pdf]
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Re: Socioeconomic status and the relationship between the SAT and GPA (2009) [pdf]
#2i.e. socioeconomic status is correlated with SAT performance because socioeconomic status is also correlated with stronger basic academic skills.
Re: Socioeconomic status and the relationship between the SAT and GPA (2009) [pdf]
#3Relatedly, UT Austin found the SAT highly predictive and decided to reinstate the requirement: https://news.utexas.edu/2024/03/11/ut-austin-reinstates-stan...
> Those who opted in had a median SAT score of 1420, compared with a median of 1160 among those who did not.
> The higher standardized scores translated on average to better collegiate academic performance. Of 9,217 first-year students enrolled in 2023, those who opted in had an estimated average GPA of 0.86 grade points higher during their first fall semester, controlling for a wide range of factors, including high school class rank and GPA.
Re: Socioeconomic status and the relationship between the SAT and GPA (2009) [pdf]
#4i.e. socioeconomic status is correlated with SAT performance because socioeconomic status is also correlated with stronger basic academic skills.
Yeah, the article ends with:
> In conclusion, our work focuses on the predictive power of admissions tests and shows that this power is not an artifact of SES. There is a substantial SES–test relationship, though it is important to note that test scores reflect far more than SES. About a quarter of the variance in test scores is shared with SES, and thus there is large variability in test scores at any given level of SES. Thus, claims that tests are merely proxies for SES are unfounded
I've never understood the model of the world that people who don't agree with this. If you believe that
a) genetics exist, and traits such as intelligence are therefore hereditary; and b) socioeconomic success is correlated to intelligence
Then the inevitable conclusion is that wealthy people will be more likely to have higher SAT scores. Of course this is obviously just a correlation; lottery winners are rich but with no correlation to intelligence, children of two intelligent parents tend to regress to the mean, two average parents can produce intelligent children, families might be poor simply through bad luck or some particular emotional/mental block they have, and a million other factors. But nevertheless we'd expect test scores to be our best available wealth-blind predictor of college success and later success. Certainly it's hard to imagine children with money-poor - or maybe mildly abusive - parents having a shot without test scores. They'd be less likely to have a deep extracurricular involvement or anything else requiring parental involvement.
Re: Socioeconomic status and the relationship between the SAT and GPA (2009) [pdf]
#5i.e. socioeconomic status is correlated with SAT performance because socioeconomic status is also correlated with stronger basic academic skills.
Yeah, the article ends with: > In conclusion, our work focuses on the predictive power of admissions tests and shows that this power is not an artifact of SES. There is a substantial SES–test relationship, though it is important to note that test scores reflect far more than SES. About a quarter of the variance in test scores is shared with SES, and thus there is large variability in test scores at any given level of…
I think that the strength of point b) is the point that a lot of people question. I think for people like me who question the SES - intelligence link, the point of testing is to provide any opportunity for bright people who have lower SES to have a shot, which they would be otherwise denied due to their status.
If anything, testing is one of the things that can help create that link between SES and intelligence.
Re: Socioeconomic status and the relationship between the SAT and GPA (2009) [pdf]
#6Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah, the article ends with: > In conclusion, our work focuses on the predictive power of admissions tests and shows that this power is not an artifact of SES. There is a substantial SES–test relationship, though it is important to note that test scores reflect far more than SES. About a quarter of the variance in test scores is shared with SES, and thus there is large variability in test scores at any given level of…
I think that the strength of point b) is the point that a lot of people question. I think for people like me who question the SES - intelligence link, the point of testing is to provide any opportunity for bright people who have lower SES to have a shot, which they would be otherwise denied due to their status. If anything, testing is one of the things that can help create that link between SES and intelligence.
Right, it's only a correlation, not a guarantee. And people who don't end up part of the correlation have maybe their best shot of becoming successful (assuming they pursue a career requiring a degree) via test scores. Anything else likely has a much stronger correlation with SES or might be very noisy: extracurriculars require money and parental involvement, high school grades can be worthless depending on the school, filtering by school rules out a lot of poor people, etc.
Re: Socioeconomic status and the relationship between the SAT and GPA (2009) [pdf]
#7Relatedly, UT Austin found the SAT highly predictive and decided to reinstate the requirement: https://news.utexas.edu/2024/03/11/ut-austin-reinstates-stan... > Those who opted in had a median SAT score of 1420, compared with a median of 1160 among those who did not. > The higher standardized scores translated on average to better collegiate academic performance. Of 9,217 first-year students enrolled in 2023, those w…
These kind of things are making me conservative on knowledge.
>10-15 years ago 'standardized testing doesnt matter at all'
>You are an idiot if you think it matters
>Oops THEY were wrong. You are still an idiot and ahole for disagreeing with me 10 years ago.
Obviously there is a golden mean here, but I just remember how radical some of these teachers were.
Re: Socioeconomic status and the relationship between the SAT and GPA (2009) [pdf]
#8Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah, the article ends with: > In conclusion, our work focuses on the predictive power of admissions tests and shows that this power is not an artifact of SES. There is a substantial SES–test relationship, though it is important to note that test scores reflect far more than SES. About a quarter of the variance in test scores is shared with SES, and thus there is large variability in test scores at any given level of…
I think that the strength of point b) is the point that a lot of people question. I think for people like me who question the SES - intelligence link, the point of testing is to provide any opportunity for bright people who have lower SES to have a shot, which they would be otherwise denied due to their status. If anything, testing is one of the things that can help create that link between SES and intelligence.
I think the OP has the arrow of causation pointing the other way from what you suggest: that is to say that higher intelligence leads to higher SES because knowledge work tends to be higher SES and those with higher intelligence are more likely to be able to find employment in knowledge work professions.
That is probably predicated on the existence of at least some social mobility though.
Re: Socioeconomic status and the relationship between the SAT and GPA (2009) [pdf]
#9The NYTimes had an good interactive story on this same topic this week:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/03/09/upshot/affirm...
Re: Socioeconomic status and the relationship between the SAT and GPA (2009) [pdf]
#10Relatedly, UT Austin found the SAT highly predictive and decided to reinstate the requirement: https://news.utexas.edu/2024/03/11/ut-austin-reinstates-stan... > Those who opted in had a median SAT score of 1420, compared with a median of 1160 among those who did not. > The higher standardized scores translated on average to better collegiate academic performance. Of 9,217 first-year students enrolled in 2023, those w…
But, is first-semester GPA predictive of anything? I'd rather see this result at graduation. Does the higher SAT predict higher graduation rate, better grad school or job placement, or anything else? Note, I'm not arguing it won't be - I don't know. I just know more than a few people who bombed their first semester (most with SATs well above average), myself included, who ended up with decent academic performance once they got over the "shock" of being an adult away from home.