Tesla shares 48V architecture with other automakers
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Re: Tesla shares 48V architecture with other automakers
#2TIL that 42V fizzled out https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/42-volt_electrical_system
I welcome the move to 48V, as one gets lots of cross over synergies from the 48V telco standard.
https://www.servertech.com/blog/48vdc-power-and-the-backbone...
https://www.st.com/content/dam/AME/2019/developers-conferenc...
https://www.maximintegrated.com/content/dam/files/products/p...
https://www.infineon.com/cms/en/applications/information-com...
Re: Tesla shares 48V architecture with other automakers
#3TIL that 42V fizzled out https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/42-volt_electrical_system I welcome the move to 48V, as one gets lots of cross over synergies from the 48V telco standard. https://www.servertech.com/blog/48vdc-power-and-the-backbone... https://www.st.com/content/dam/AME/2019/developers-conferenc... https://www.maximintegrated.com/content/dam/files/products/p... https://www.infineon.com/cms/en/applications/infor…
Agreed. 48V (actually -48V) has been used across telco central offices for decades.
Re: Tesla shares 48V architecture with other automakers
#4Do more stuff like this, Elon. I really don’t like not liking you.
Re: Tesla shares 48V architecture with other automakers
#5Why would a car need a 48V system for accessories? In general the things a car's 12V system powers have gotten less power hungry over time (LED's, heat pump) and in particular, an EV loses the highest power electrical device on the 12V bus, the starter. The typical equipment used for the entertainment and control systems are going to be much more available with 12V supplies, just because that's the industry standard.
Obviously the traction system is using much, much higher voltages.
The article cites "complexity" of the wiring harnesses, which is nonsense. The wires might get a little smaller, but not by a lot. Like I said, the 12V bus in an EV isn't driving a bunch of high power stuff. (Is it? Am I missing something?)
The one place I can imagine it helping is for driving inverters so you can provide AC outlets for laptops, power tools, etc.
Re: Tesla shares 48V architecture with other automakers
#6Do more stuff like this, Elon. I really don’t like not liking you.
weird comment... maybe we shouldn't feel the need to idolize humans...
Re: Tesla shares 48V architecture with other automakers
#7TIL that 42V fizzled out https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/42-volt_electrical_system I welcome the move to 48V, as one gets lots of cross over synergies from the 48V telco standard. https://www.servertech.com/blog/48vdc-power-and-the-backbone... https://www.st.com/content/dam/AME/2019/developers-conferenc... https://www.maximintegrated.com/content/dam/files/products/p... https://www.infineon.com/cms/en/applications/infor…
Agreed. 48V (actually -48V) has been used across telco central offices for decades.
It's a really nice voltage with lots of support for batteries and up/dn conversion hardware.
It's also right at the edge of what is human safe. You can burn yourself and blow up cables, but it's very difficult to electrocute yourself (afib or muscle seize) without lots of wet contact.
https://incompliancemag.com/article/experiments-of-dc-human-...
Re: Tesla shares 48V architecture with other automakers
#8It is interesting to think about how an automaker like Tesla which is more vertically integrated and has less in the way of legacy parts/tools/processes can make this change more easily than the established players. From the article:
If you cannot convert all of a vehicle’s systems to 48V architecture, the benefits of using such an architecture start to diminish pretty quickly . . . If an automaker decides to move to a 48V architecture, whatever car it builds must use 48V-ready accessories. But, suppliers aren’t incentivized to build such accessories without sufficient demand.
Re: Tesla shares 48V architecture with other automakers
#9Why would a car need a 48V system for accessories? In general the things a car's 12V system powers have gotten less power hungry over time (LED's, heat pump) and in particular, an EV loses the highest power electrical device on the 12V bus, the starter. The typical equipment used for the entertainment and control systems are going to be much more available with 12V supplies, just because that's the industry standard.…
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bordnetz#48-Volt-Bordnetz_im_A... explains (a bit) why German car makers are using 48V since ~2016 (in addition to the still existing 12V system, which seems to be the difference with Tesla, which went 48V-only).
DeepL translation:
The 12 V electrical system can barely cover the power consumption that modern vehicles need for their comfort systems. The "static" consumers completely overload the alternator, which provides up to 3 kW of power, especially at low temperatures.[12] The battery power is not sufficient for additional dynamic consumers, such as powerful electrically driven compressors.[13]
For this reason, a proposal was made at the end of the 1990s to install a 14 V/42 V electrical system in motor vehicles.[14] From 2001, Japanese manufacturers and General Motors launched hybrid vehicles with this electrical system on the market.[15] Although Daimler-Chrysler was one of the co-initiators of this concept, it was not used in Germany. One reason for this was that it did not appear possible to demonstrate a corresponding utility value to customers for the necessary additional price[14].
Instead, since 2010, German car manufacturers have favoured the solution of providing a second 48 V electrical system to supplement the 12 V system.[9] Since 2016, the first series applications of 48 V electrical system components have been the operation of the electric compressor and the electromechanical roll stabilization in the Audi SQ7 4.0 TDI and Bentley Bentayga. Both are based on the same platform.
Translated with DeepL.com (free version)
Re: Tesla shares 48V architecture with other automakers
#10Why would a car need a 48V system for accessories? In general the things a car's 12V system powers have gotten less power hungry over time (LED's, heat pump) and in particular, an EV loses the highest power electrical device on the 12V bus, the starter. The typical equipment used for the entertainment and control systems are going to be much more available with 12V supplies, just because that's the industry standard.…
You can run smaller wires through the vehicle then down voltage on device.