Why aren't there more 80% jobs?
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Why aren't there more 80% jobs?
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Re: Why aren't there more 80% jobs?
#2I believe the Netherlands stipulates the requirement to offer every job as either part or full time, and a substantial number of job applicants go for the part time option, especially women. Interestingly, there have been some unintended downstream impact of this progressive law, such as lower women participation in senior level roles.
Re: Why aren't there more 80% jobs?
#3I believe the Netherlands stipulates the requirement to offer every job as either part or full time, and a substantial number of job applicants go for the part time option, especially women. Interestingly, there have been some unintended downstream impact of this progressive law, such as lower women participation in senior level roles.
It is simply not true that all jobs are offered at parttime. There is some amount of part-time time available after getting kids, but it's not a general requirement for all jobs.
Re: Why aren't there more 80% jobs?
#4I believe the Netherlands stipulates the requirement to offer every job as either part or full time, and a substantial number of job applicants go for the part time option, especially women. Interestingly, there have been some unintended downstream impact of this progressive law, such as lower women participation in senior level roles.
>Interestingly, there have been some unintended downstream impact of this progressive law, such as lower women participation in senior level roles
This isn't downstream impact. It's more of a choice. The women choose not to strive for senior level roles. They express this choice by choosing the 4 day work week.
We shouldn't call it an unintended downstream impact because it's not something that should be corrected. If women choose not to work as hard as men, then we shouldn't try to equalize their participation in senior roles.
Re: Why aren't there more 80% jobs?
#5I believe the Netherlands stipulates the requirement to offer every job as either part or full time, and a substantial number of job applicants go for the part time option, especially women. Interestingly, there have been some unintended downstream impact of this progressive law, such as lower women participation in senior level roles.
I'm dutch and this is definitely not some stipulated requirement. Mandatory 40 hr jobs do exist. (Edit! A commenter above me shows that apparently it's difficult for employers to disallow requests for shorter workweeks, so take what i say with a grain of salt. All i know is that i often come across job openings for 40hr/wk contracts only)
That said, taxation and society as a whole is structured such that it doesn't always make sense to work 5 days. Like the author mentions, in a certain tax bracket you effectively lose 10% of your income to go from a 5 day to a 4 day work week.
Then, if you have kids, getting daycare reduces the benefits of working full time even further. To wit: I spend ~€1250/month after tax cuts on putting two kids into daycare, for 2 days. That exceeds my mortgage.
Earn more? Less tax cuts. Work longer hours? Be prepared to fork over even more money.
Re: Why aren't there more 80% jobs?
#6I believe the Netherlands stipulates the requirement to offer every job as either part or full time, and a substantial number of job applicants go for the part time option, especially women. Interestingly, there have been some unintended downstream impact of this progressive law, such as lower women participation in senior level roles.
Explanatory page at https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen/arbeidsovereenkomst... (Dutch only AFAICT, sorry)
Employers are almost required to approve a request to work less hours than full time. The reasons why it would not be allowed are fairly minimal. The only reasons allowed are:
- Nobody else can take over the work (ie very specialized knowledge)
- Insurmountable problems with work shift planning (simply having to hire another person is not considered insurmountable)
- Not enough money or work (rare, would primarily occur for people wanting to work more instead of less)
- No space in the personnel formation (would presumably also mostly apply for people wanting to work more rather than less)
In addition this law only applies to companies with more than 10 employees, the employee requesting part time has to work there for at least 26 weeks and they need to file the request at least 8 weeks in advance (to give the employer time to hire additional people)
That said, yes it is great and I agree completely with TFA. I fully believe that having 5 employees at 32 hours/week is better for a company than 4 employees at 40 hours/week, for the reasons stated in the article. It is better for employees too, because an extra day a week to do errands (while the kids are at school!) brings some much needed extra time in a household where both partners are working. Even if you are not married having more time for yourself can be a great choice if you already have enough income.
Re: Why aren't there more 80% jobs?
#7The endgame for something like this is purely-dynamic percentages....i.e hourly pay.
IMHO this is where many rank-and-file dev jobs are headed...you will be paid by the hour to close tickets, and when there are no tickets, there is no work, and no pay.
Employers will sell this as a "benefit" like "unlimited PTO"...but it's really not
Be careful about pursuing that four day work week...
Re: Why aren't there more 80% jobs?
#8Honestly everyone is just happier in Scandinavia.
I feel most of the innovation comes from the US though, but this isn't a disadvantage for the Netherlands because technology developed in the US percolates to them as well. They get the benefits without the downsides. Heck I remember reading about how more people own Tesla's their then here.
Re: Why aren't there more 80% jobs?
#9Honestly everyone is just happier in Scandinavia. I feel most of the innovation comes from the US though, but this isn't a disadvantage for the Netherlands because technology developed in the US percolates to them as well. They get the benefits without the downsides. Heck I remember reading about how more people own Tesla's their then here.
The Netherlands are not in Scandinavia?
Re: Why aren't there more 80% jobs?
#10It's borderline criminal that after decades of productivity increases due to automation and technology, people are still working 40-hour weeks or more, and their wages have been mostly stagnant[1,2,3]. Most of the benefits of this change is instead being reaped by already highly paid executives.
Not only should people in most industries be working less, they should be paid more for it. Cutting my income by 20% for the privilege of working less is unacceptable. Especially when it's been proven that working less is an overall net positive for companies as well[4].
Stop being greedy, and treat your employees well.
[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decoupling_of_wages_from_produ...
[2]: https://www.epi.org/publication/charting-wage-stagnation/
[3]: https://www.epi.org/productivity-pay-gap/
[4]: https://www.businessinsider.com/4-day-workweek-successful-tr...