Microsoft creates special application class for Windows 8 browsers
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Re: Microsoft creates special application class for Windows 8 browsers
#2It's really hard to parse articles from OSNews, Groklaw, and by Redhat employees about Microsoft and Windows 8, specifically, to try and filter out the bias and hate and cut to the chase.
First, the very first line.
>And thus, Microsoft bites itself in its behind with Metro.
Uh what? Putting the supposed conclusion as the first line as if the the headline says everything? (BTW the headline is pretty obtuse, even for a geek like me).
> Microsoft has had to define a separate application class [.docx] - aside from Metro and desktop applications - just to make third party web browsers possible for Windows 8.
Isn't that a good thing? Microsoft is already one step better than Apple that it's making special allowances in the security sandbox for browsers? Try developing a real browser for the current post-PC iOS devices.
Why is this being spun into a bad thing? The problem is that allowing everything will allow malware/spyware to come into the picture. Then these very same people disparaging MS for this move would then disparage Windows devices as insecure and virus-prone and recommend people switch to other platforms! Not to mention very real battery life concerns.
Also, all the desktop browsers will continue to work the same on Windows 8 x86 PCs and tablets. You can even have them as the only app pinned in the default start screen!
>This stuff all came out because the Firefox team has announced it's working on implementing such a Metro style enabled desktop browser. However, Microsoft has provided very little information on this obscure third application class as of yet, making it very hard for browser developers to properly target it. Of course, Windows 8 is still in development, but considering the company's past behaviour, it's easy to assume they're doing this on purpose.
Right, and when Microsoft has to change something in Windows 8 that will affect 3rd party browsers, these very same people will be yelling about an intentional conspiracy to break those browsers and slow down development. In short, you can never satisfy these folks. So why even bother trying? They will dislike MS at any cost, so it's better for MS to do things the right way and at their own pace.
Already MS loses the VIOLA! Steve Jobs type unveiling moment because of the constant sharing of information with developers and users via extensive blogs and pre-release versions which will likely reduce the hype and sales at launch.
>Another uncertainty at this point is the ARM version of Windows 8. A Metro style enabled desktop browser must be distributed the old-fashioned way as opposed to through the new Windows Store, and since the traditional desktop is locked down on the ARM version (i.e., it is not possible to install applications outside of the Windows Store on ARM), this currently means Mozilla and Google will not be able to distribute Firefox or Chrome for the ARM version of Windows 8.
We are constantly reminded here and everywhere that there is no tablet market and there is only an iPad market. Why don't these same people complain about third party browsers being completely banned on the iPad which has a huge share in the tablet market? Why pick on WoA that is essentially starting from zero and has a mountain to climb before getting any share and has the odds stacked against it with 200K iPad apps etc. (and will likely fail according to many pundits) ?
http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/technology/2012/03/...
Going back to the first line and conclusion of the article:
>And thus, Microsoft bites itself in its behind with Metro
How? Is that because they have specially allowed 3rd party browsers unlike the super successful iPad>? The IE10 in the previews released so far seem pretty fast and decent. I feel dimmer after reading the article and for the people who accuse Microsoft of FUD, all this smells very much like misleading FUD against Metro.
Re: Microsoft creates special application class for Windows 8 browsers
#3I'm pretty shocked that Microsoft hasn't been better at maintaining appearances for the EU. If I was on that team (easy to say, I know), I'd make darn sure that third party browser developers were kept in the loop. Publish the info on MSDN. Shower them with emails asking them if they need help. It's good for the OS, the public, and it would be a good proactive measure toward maintaining regulatory compliance.
Re: Microsoft creates special application class for Windows 8 browsers
#4I'm pretty shocked that Microsoft hasn't been better at maintaining appearances for the EU. If I was on that team (easy to say, I know), I'd make darn sure that third party browser developers were kept in the loop. Publish the info on MSDN. Shower them with emails asking them if they need help. It's good for the OS, the public, and it would be a good proactive measure toward maintaining regulatory compliance.
The OS isn't even ready yet and they're probably tweaking the brand new full fledged API that's probably full of bugs and issues and has to run on a completely new platform for Windows, ARM and also has to be battery efficient. You're underestimating the amount of work it takes port tens of millions of lines of code into a new platform and then to make sure things work and still have the ability to radically change things to get the last bit of performance out without having to worry about third party developers who have already invested significantly in the beta APIs.
Since they have already committed to allowing 3rd party browsers, I guess they will be coming forward with the information when it's ready. Till then the desktop browsers will continue to work for x86 based machines.
Re: Microsoft creates special application class for Windows 8 browsers
#5I'm pretty shocked that Microsoft hasn't been better at maintaining appearances for the EU. If I was on that team (easy to say, I know), I'd make darn sure that third party browser developers were kept in the loop. Publish the info on MSDN. Shower them with emails asking them if they need help. It's good for the OS, the public, and it would be a good proactive measure toward maintaining regulatory compliance.
I'm pretty sure the IE and Firefox teams get together regularly. I don't think the same sense of comraderie exists between the IE and chrome teams.
Re: Microsoft creates special application class for Windows 8 browsers
#6I'm pretty shocked that Microsoft hasn't been better at maintaining appearances for the EU. If I was on that team (easy to say, I know), I'd make darn sure that third party browser developers were kept in the loop. Publish the info on MSDN. Shower them with emails asking them if they need help. It's good for the OS, the public, and it would be a good proactive measure toward maintaining regulatory compliance.
The OS isn't even ready yet and they're probably tweaking the brand new full fledged API that's probably full of bugs and issues and has to run on a completely new platform for Windows, ARM and also has to be battery efficient. You're underestimating the amount of work it takes port tens of millions of lines of code into a new platform and then to make sure things work and still have the ability to radically change t…
They are at public beta now; fundamental things like API interfaces should have been fully baked months ago.
Re: Microsoft creates special application class for Windows 8 browsers
#7It's really hard to parse articles from OSNews, Groklaw, and by Redhat employees about Microsoft and Windows 8, specifically, to try and filter out the bias and hate and cut to the chase. First, the very first line. >And thus, Microsoft bites itself in its behind with Metro. Uh what? Putting the supposed conclusion as the first line as if the the headline says everything? (BTW the headline is pretty obtuse, even for…
I am also having a hard time trying to understand the author.
The author seems to think that Firefox is in big trouble in the post-PC world but then tries to blame MS for that, when MS has specifically made allowance for third party browsers? I know MS is the favorite whipping boy in the blogosphere but why does MS deserve blame for Firefox being in trouble?.
He seems to realize that Firefox will have a good chance if Metro/Windows 8 succeeds, so calls for a EU intervention but then seems to vehemently wish that Win 8/Metro be dead.
Edit: After some more thinking, it's beginning to make more sense. Linux/FOSS all these days have been made possible in part due to Microsoft licensing DOS/Windows to IBM clones made by Compaq.
This allowed "open" PCs on a large scale competing with Apple and Microsoft did not have control over what ran on them. This allowed OSes like Linux and BeOS to show up and flourish since the hardware was cheap and readily available. Much of the other platforms were very closed and OS vendor controlled. Interesting that the object of hate and ridicule, Microsoft, is what enabled the platform in the first place.
Coming to the Post-PC world, because of the top-down vertical integration by Apple and Android/Ubuntu/Boot to Gecko etc tablets not really taking off, Linux/Firefox. are being squeezed out of the market. There is no place for them on iPads and if that's what people buy and desert PCs, they are in real danger. One way is to continue on to Metro and piggyback again on Microsoft's success but that means arch-enemy Microsoft needs to succeed which is indeed a Catch-22 for many folks.
Re: Microsoft creates special application class for Windows 8 browsers
#8I'm pretty shocked that Microsoft hasn't been better at maintaining appearances for the EU. If I was on that team (easy to say, I know), I'd make darn sure that third party browser developers were kept in the loop. Publish the info on MSDN. Shower them with emails asking them if they need help. It's good for the OS, the public, and it would be a good proactive measure toward maintaining regulatory compliance.
I'm pretty sure the IE and Firefox teams get together regularly. I don't think the same sense of comraderie exists between the IE and chrome teams.
Not that I know any of the parties, but what makes you think that?
Re: Microsoft creates special application class for Windows 8 browsers
#9Earlier quoted context omitted.
The OS isn't even ready yet and they're probably tweaking the brand new full fledged API that's probably full of bugs and issues and has to run on a completely new platform for Windows, ARM and also has to be battery efficient. You're underestimating the amount of work it takes port tens of millions of lines of code into a new platform and then to make sure things work and still have the ability to radically change t…
They are at public beta now; fundamental things like API interfaces should have been fully baked months ago.
The API for WinRT is fully baked since it's a sandboxed API, but the native code that browsers need is still somewhat in flux I think.
Also, that's for x86 only. ARM devices are nowhere as polished. In fact they seem to have specifically made them unavailable and locked them up in glass boxes at BUILD and also didn't allow reporters to play with them at MWC.
http://www.engadget.com/2011/09/14/nvidias-kal-el-reference-...
Maybe they're concentrating on Metro apps first since the browser developers have significant resources to ramp up development unlike the small app developers, I am not sure though.
Re: Microsoft creates special application class for Windows 8 browsers
#10It's really hard to parse articles from OSNews, Groklaw, and by Redhat employees about Microsoft and Windows 8, specifically, to try and filter out the bias and hate and cut to the chase. First, the very first line. >And thus, Microsoft bites itself in its behind with Metro. Uh what? Putting the supposed conclusion as the first line as if the the headline says everything? (BTW the headline is pretty obtuse, even for…
>Why don't these same people complain about third party browsers being completely banned on the iPad which has a huge share in the tablet market?
There are many third party browsers available on the App Store for iPad. I'm not sure where you got the idea that they're "banned"?