Framework Laptop 16 Deep Dive – 180W Power Adapter • Hacker News Board

Virtually all of the electrical energy put into a computer is turned into heat, right? Some of it comes out as visible light from the screen and some tiny portion of it is.. converted into information I guess? But generally a 180W computer is putting out very nearly 180W of thermal energy, as I understand it.

My point is that laptops with 90W adapters can get too hot to comfortably touch, I think at 180W you're well past the point where actually using it on your lap is advisable.

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Deep Dive – 180W Power Adapter

#6

Post by josephcsible » Fri, Jun 23, 2023, 3:49 PM UTC

mcpackieh wrote: post #5

Virtually all of the electrical energy put into a computer is turned into heat, right? Some of it comes out as visible light from the screen and some tiny portion of it is.. converted into information I guess? But generally a 180W computer is putting out very nearly 180W of thermal energy, as I understand it. My point is that laptops with 90W adapters can get too hot to comfortably touch, I think at 180W you're well…

> My point is that laptops with 90W adapters can get too hot to comfortably touch, I think at 180W you're well past the point where actually using it on your lap is advisable.

You're mixing up thermal energy and temperature. Consider that you can easily burn yourself on a 60W soldering iron, but it'd be quite hard to do so on a 1500W oil-filled space heater.

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Deep Dive – 180W Power Adapter

#7

Post by mcpackieh » Fri, Jun 23, 2023, 3:52 PM UTC

josephcsible wrote: post #6

mcpackieh wrote: post #5

Virtually all of the electrical energy put into a computer is turned into heat, right? Some of it comes out as visible light from the screen and some tiny portion of it is.. converted into information I guess? But generally a 180W computer is putting out very nearly 180W of thermal energy, as I understand it. My point is that laptops with 90W adapters can get too hot to comfortably touch, I think at 180W you're well…

> My point is that laptops with 90W adapters can get too hot to comfortably touch, I think at 180W you're well past the point where actually using it on your lap is advisable. You're mixing up thermal energy and temperature. Consider that you can easily burn yourself on a 60W soldering iron, but it'd be quite hard to do so on a 1500W oil-filled space heater.

You could keep temperature down with fans, but my 90W thinkpad has fans so strong it sounds (and feels) like a hair drier and still runs very hot. I'm having a hard time imagining a 180W laptop that isn't hotter than hell.

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Deep Dive – 180W Power Adapter

#8

Post by kevincox » Fri, Jun 23, 2023, 3:55 PM UTC

mcpackieh wrote: post #5

Virtually all of the electrical energy put into a computer is turned into heat, right? Some of it comes out as visible light from the screen and some tiny portion of it is.. converted into information I guess? But generally a 180W computer is putting out very nearly 180W of thermal energy, as I understand it. My point is that laptops with 90W adapters can get too hot to comfortably touch, I think at 180W you're well…

This is true, it would take a fantastic cooling system to make burning 180W on your lap comfortable. However that doesn't make a 180W laptop useless. Firstly if you are charging it when not on your lap you may prefer the faster charging and the heat doesn't matter much if it is just sitting on a table. (Plus more than half of the energy is going into the batter rather than being expelled as heat). Secondly if you are at a desk then it is nice to have the ability to do demanding tasks, even if a lot of your use is well under 180W having the ability to set it down and crunch some data (like letting a video render for a few hours unattended or playing a game with keyboard and mouse) is very useful. Thirdly short bursts of 180W isn't uncomfortable, so it can be useful to have this capacity even if your average is well under 180W.

I would hope that the power management settings have options to limit the power usage/heat output that can be enabled when using it on your lap.

TL;DR yes, burning a constant 180W on your lap isn't good, but having this capability adds many valuable use cases.

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Deep Dive – 180W Power Adapter

#9

Post by stingraycharles » Fri, Jun 23, 2023, 3:56 PM UTC

yonatan8070 wrote: post #4

sneak wrote: post #2

That's not a deep dive. It doesn't even show the PCB.

Yeah, I'm all for the idea behind framework but there's very little actual technical details being shared other than controller ICs

LTT had a video recently where he went to their production facilities and show how they’re actually making the laptops. Was pretty informative, more informative than the information we’re getting from framework themselves.

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Deep Dive – 180W Power Adapter

#10

Post by Analemma_ » Fri, Jun 23, 2023, 3:57 PM UTC

mcpackieh wrote: post #5

Virtually all of the electrical energy put into a computer is turned into heat, right? Some of it comes out as visible light from the screen and some tiny portion of it is.. converted into information I guess? But generally a 180W computer is putting out very nearly 180W of thermal energy, as I understand it. My point is that laptops with 90W adapters can get too hot to comfortably touch, I think at 180W you're well…

My understanding is that most Framework 16 laptops won't draw anything close to 180W, and only the people who put beefy discrete graphics cards in the expansion bay will have that kind of draw, and those graphics modules will have their own fans to reject heat.