Linus Torvalds on C++

#1

Post by NARKOZ » Tue, Feb 28, 2012, 12:07 AM UTC

Re: Linus Torvalds on C++

#2

Post by mtrn » Tue, Feb 28, 2012, 12:18 AM UTC

A discussion which was inspired by this rant by Linus Torvalds on Stack Overflow: http://stackoverflow.com/q/1995471/89391 (Is learning C++ a good idea?)

Re: Linus Torvalds on C++

#3

Post by redthrowaway » Tue, Feb 28, 2012, 1:08 AM UTC

I tend to take everything Linus says with a grain of salt. Not because he's wrong, or because he doesn't know what he's talking about, but there's enough of the puckish troll in him that I tend to read his posts more with an eye to their intended effect, than to what he's actually saying.

There are plenty of applications for which c++ is a perfectly sensible language choice. Git isn't one of them.

Re: Linus Torvalds on C++

#4

Post by captaincrunch » Tue, Feb 28, 2012, 1:12 AM UTC

Linus is probably the %1 of people in the world who actually needs to get the performance gain that C has over C++ - as for the rest of us? Probably doesn't matter.

Re: Linus Torvalds on C++

#5

Post by stephen_g » Tue, Feb 28, 2012, 1:14 AM UTC

Has anyone really not seen this in the last two years?

Anyway, Linus may be a very experienced C programmer, but that doesn't mean his opinion on C++ carries much weight... I'd be more interested on what someone who actually has a lot of experience in using C++ says. Especially with modern C++ and recent tools, libraries etc, which are very different from what was around five or ten years ago.

I suppose it is nice for a change for someone bagging out C++ (however inaccurately) to be advocating C instead of a managed or interpreted language though!

Re: Linus Torvalds on C++

#6

Post by nxn » Tue, Feb 28, 2012, 1:27 AM UTC

stephen_g wrote: post #5

Has anyone really not seen this in the last two years? Anyway, Linus may be a very experienced C programmer, but that doesn't mean his opinion on C++ carries much weight... I'd be more interested on what someone who actually has a lot of experience in using C++ says. Especially with modern C++ and recent tools, libraries etc, which are very different from what was around five or ten years ago. I suppose it is nice fo…

Haven't seen it. I've seen many other examples of Torvalds being an ass, but I don't bother to keep track really.

It does make me wonder though how he's able to get away with responses like that, when most other "founders" (not sure what the proper term here really is) would have the majority of their users/supporters just go elsewhere.

EDIT: ... Let alone have supporters who get defensive enough to start downvoting someone who stated the obvious (he did act like an ass), while asking a reasonable question too.

Re: Linus Torvalds on C++

#7

Post by droithomme » Tue, Feb 28, 2012, 1:27 AM UTC

stephen_g wrote: post #5

Has anyone really not seen this in the last two years? Anyway, Linus may be a very experienced C programmer, but that doesn't mean his opinion on C++ carries much weight... I'd be more interested on what someone who actually has a lot of experience in using C++ says. Especially with modern C++ and recent tools, libraries etc, which are very different from what was around five or ten years ago. I suppose it is nice fo…

"I'd be more interested on what someone who actually has a lot of experience in using C++ says."

I have considerable experience with C++, going back to when it was called C with Classes and you used a preprocessor to convert C with Classes code to C and then compiled the C.

What Linus says is pretty much true. I don't expect it to matter though since when people say "I'd be more interested on what someone who actually has a lot of experience in using C++ says." they don't really mean it.

There is another guy I know of with considerable experience in C++, Yossi Kreinin, who knows more about C++ than Stroustrop. He has a very nice web site that is one of the best references in C++ I have seen, going far deeper than others. Yossi is the number one expert on C++ in the world today. I recommend his insights to all: http://yosefk.com/c++fqa/

Re: Linus Torvalds on C++

#8

Post by mckilljoy » Tue, Feb 28, 2012, 1:33 AM UTC

In principle I agree that C is a more appropriate choice in many situations, but I think his pure hatred for C++ is kind of funny.

Re: Linus Torvalds on C++

#9

Post by hndl » Tue, Feb 28, 2012, 1:41 AM UTC

stephen_g wrote: post #5

Has anyone really not seen this in the last two years? Anyway, Linus may be a very experienced C programmer, but that doesn't mean his opinion on C++ carries much weight... I'd be more interested on what someone who actually has a lot of experience in using C++ says. Especially with modern C++ and recent tools, libraries etc, which are very different from what was around five or ten years ago. I suppose it is nice fo…

I think we're missing the point here. Taking the side of the customer of git, I'm happy. I type things on a CLI with git and things happen pretty fast. I'm happy. I don't care whether you wrote it with C, C++ or Haskell. It works. It works just fine. To Linus's point, I've never used, or even heard of someone using Monotone. That must say _something_.

Re: Linus Torvalds on C++

#10

Post by 2muchcoffeeman » Tue, Feb 28, 2012, 1:42 AM UTC

mtrn wrote: post #2

A discussion which was inspired by this rant by Linus Torvalds on Stack Overflow: http://stackoverflow.com/q/1995471/89391 (Is learning C++ a good idea?)

I don't know C++. The accepted response does not start off well.

"C++ is a complex language, and if you don't learn it properly, it's very easy to shoot yourself in the foot. And that is also why you shouldn't listen to most non-C++ programmers hate towards C++. Most of the time, they didn't learn the language properly, so they're not really able to judge the language"

What does that mean? It sounds like, that without some significant amount of knowledge, you can't understand it's benefits.

Thinking of the languages I know, I think the things they are trying to improve are apparent with a basic knowledge of the language.