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Ask HN: What's with the DIY state of the art long-range Wi-Fi?

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Ask HN: What's with the DIY state of the art long-range Wi-Fi?

#1
Hey,

I lead the technical efforts at one of the charities in Ukraine; we're now trying to rebuild connectivity for people in some of the areas where much of the civilian infrastructure was destroyed and Starlink® is not a viable option, or perhaps "not-to-be easily scaled option."

The world of long-range Wi-Fi is a wild one!

We are now trying to evaluate the cost of a point-to-point mesh network using commodity hardware, and so far have only experimented with Raspberry hardware to work the antenna, and some Atheros AR9331-based SoC's. The idea is to make a single device that can act as both a relay station, as well as an actual hotspot, it then can be placed in line-of-sight configuration to potentially cover huge areas (the accepted performance would be anywhere from 0.1-1 Mbit/s point-to-point over anywhere from 5-20km. We are aiming to bring the cost of such configuration down to $100 per unit at least. Hopefully, we also wouldn't need to do so and somebody else could do the whole thing for us at a similar price... Where would you start, i.e. with the vendors, as well as the commodity hardware, firmware that should work best for a setup like this? Bonus points; if it can be somewhat be aware of the current happenstance. In terms of bleed from Electronic warfare deployed by the enemy in Ukraine; it has to work hopefully in adversarial environment!

Best regards, Ilya The Stone Cross Foundation

Re: Ask HN: What's with the DIY state of the art long-range Wi-Fi?

#2
Reach out to various existing infrastructure projects that build and maintain large community-owned P2P WiFi deployments, the two largest ones are Freifunk and Guifi. They would surely be able to and wanting to help you, if you reach out to them. Try https://freifunk.net/en/contact/ and https://matrix.guifi.net/

Most of them are using commodity hardware from Mikrotik, Teltonika and Ubiquiti. Basic setup for a personal node is just an antenna + router. Then they usually have the concept of "supernodes" who are responsible for hooking up multiple personal nodes, and have uni-directional antennas + multiple ones + bigger routers to facilitate the routing.

I'm not sure you'll be able to put together a supernode with decent range for under $100 though, think the cost would be more than that, but I would be happy to be proven wrong.

In terms of firmware, I've almost exclusively seen OpenWRT being used (and the rest running default Mikrotik/Ubiquiti firmware), with various self-made patches done to it before installing it on the hardware.

Re: Ask HN: What's with the DIY state of the art long-range Wi-Fi?

#7
post #4

Here is a write-up of the NYC mesh network https://docs.nycmesh.net/intro/

NYC Mesh is a great initiative, and probably the one with the most "modern" setup as it's the newest one. But take into consideration that it might also not be as reliable or work at the same scale as Freifunk or Guifi.

Number of online nodes per network as of today:

- NYC Mesh: 1281 (https://www.nycmesh.net/map)

- Freifunk: 42,524 (https://www.freifunk-karte.de/)

- Guifi: 37,721 (https://guifi.net/en/node/3671/view/nodes)

Re: Ask HN: What's with the DIY state of the art long-range Wi-Fi?

#8
Freifunk should work fairly easily; take 2-3 2X2 MIMO routers (like 20 bucks each), adjust the firmware for them, get the P2P directional link to either use existing satellite dishes (not sure what the easy orthomode splitter is, here, as you need same-source-spot signals for both horizontal/vertical or left/right polarization), or simple DIY'd axial helix antennas (made on plastic/cardboard tube of appropriate diameter, by winding an even spiral at the right "thread pitch", then fixing it in place with glue/tape, and weatherproofing the assembly) (one wound like a normal screw thread, the other like a reverse thread, and put side-by-side with a gap of like 5-10 tube diameters to not interfere with each other).

Use the router's switch ports to connect them with each other, and use one local router with stock antennas pointing straight up to serve local clients and mesh with possible nearby mesh nodes.

The electronic warfare resilience is going to involve hacking the collision avoidance techniques to be sufficiently less aggressive, and likely to get Freifunk to use encryption for the mesh links. If necessary, just set up P2P links with per-link encryption. Routing-table-affecting nodes in a mesh sadly need some inherent trust to be performant in the non-adversarial case, or at least, no one seems to have tackled that possible issue yet (to the point where you could just compile existing software for the router at hand and get something working by the end of next week).

Re: Ask HN: What's with the DIY state of the art long-range Wi-Fi?

#9
I think in terms of cheap PtP and PtMP equipment that has fairly long ranges you can’t beat ubiquiti’s product line. They are fairly easy to use for technical people with less networking experience. Try out their cool network planning tools at

https://ispdesign.ui.com/

(I have no affiliation with UBNT, I just use their stuff at home)

Re: Ask HN: What's with the DIY state of the art long-range Wi-Fi?

#10

Have you looked into the Ubiquiti AirMax kit?

Ubiquiti is amazing. really attractive price point, pretty solid kit and performance and really easy to setup and use.

Compared to Mikrotik, Ubiquiti only has better UI and more bells and whistles (pretty graphs and so on), while Mikrotik tends to be cheaper and have the same performance and being able to control/configure every aspect of the hardware. If you're trying to build a cheaper kit, I'll probably go for Mikrotik, in this scenario at least (ie not "WiFi in my house/property" but cross-country mesh network).
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