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Normalising Layoffs/Firing

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Normalising Layoffs/Firing

#1
I am seeing lots of posts on HN about layoffs. So and so company fired 1000 people, so and so company reduced it's workforce by 20%, etc.

We have normalised firing of people. I don't know about the "developed" countries where people have social security, but for countries like India where there is no social security and stigma is associated with being laid off, it is a very difficult situation.

I remember asking few years ago to my sister's husband, who runs our family business, what keeps him awake at night with regards to business. His answer, "Not messing up". I was expecting something like "Funding", "Losing sales" etc. But hearing his answer surprised me. Because it sounded personal. So I asked him what does he mean? And he said, "The company has about 100 employees, but I am not just responsible for 100 employees. I am responsible for about 400 to 600 people. Each employee has a family. They make their future plans because they have an income from this company. They have to fund their kids education, they have to look after their aging parents, they might have taken a loan for daughter's marriage or for a house. They are relying on me. If I mess up, I affect lives of 400 to 600 people. That keeps me awake."

Some how firing/laying-off has been trivialised.

Re: Normalising Layoffs/Firing

#2
There's always give and take. Trivializing layoffs has made hiring managers okay with hiring employees who were laid off. The ability to lay off employees without destroying the company image allows companies to overhire in times of plenty. So while it's annoying and stressful to interview while laid off, I think that I also received the direct benefit more likely to be hired at random startups because they have that layoff option.

Re: Normalising Layoffs/Firing

#3
Is it that you feel that the posters are doing the trivializing, or society as a whole?

My impression is that nobody treats these layoffs as trivial. Recessions, downturns and the resulting employment uncertainty are cause for anxiety everywhere.

Re: Normalising Layoffs/Firing

#4
"We have normalised firing of people."

We spent decades in the US smashing unions, smashing pensions (replacing them with more volatile instruments like 401Ks) and made at-will employment dangerous for both sides of the equation.

Firing has been trivialized for decades. This is not new, and the current wave is minuscule compared to 2008, 2000, and previous. The worst is yet to come.

Re: Normalising Layoffs/Firing

#5
Your question made me wonder as to the history of employment-based income and the practice of hiring and firing.

An ngram for that phrase itself shows a sharp initial onset in the 1910s:

https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=hiring+and+fir...>

My understanding is that this was strongly tied to mass production (Fordism, after Henry Ford), which wasn't just factories but also in significant manner railroads (more below), construction projects (structures, civil engineering projects, shipbuilding), and with time, office work.

The contrast was with prior regimes of serf or feudal labour, as well as independent farmers, small crafts, artisans, shopkeepers, and professionals, many of whom were in large part independent and often family-oriented businesses. Much of that is now highly consolidated, wage-based employment.

Re: Normalising Layoffs/Firing

#6
There was and still is a stigma in all countries and social security is something that had to be fought for and which is under continual attack.

In the UK it's your mortgage that's the big worry - houses so expensive that you will pay them off for the rest of your life. What happens if you get fired and cannot pay the mortgage?

Re: Normalising Layoffs/Firing

#8
Reducing headcount _should_ be normalised. Here in Germany companies are almost forced to not lay off people.

IMO this creates bad dynamics and makes people dependant on companies. If switching company would be easier, workers could demand higher wages etc.

Re: Normalising Layoffs/Firing

#9
As a silver lining, because we’ve normalized firing, we’ve also normalized jumping ship frequently.

Get hikes and save up during good times, skill dev/change course during the recessions.

But tbh it’d be better if things didn’t swing so much.

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