Pipenv: Promises a Lot, Delivers Little (2020)
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Pipenv: Promises a Lot, Delivers Little (2020)
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Re: Pipenv: Promises a Lot, Delivers Little (2020)
#2It's a bit of an old post, and yes Pipenv is not the go-to tool anymore. pip-tools is okay for people that really, really love their requirements.txt; otherwise we tend to go with Poetry at work.
Any folks having a good experience with PDM https://github.com/pdm-project/pdm ?
Re: Pipenv: Promises a Lot, Delivers Little (2020)
#3My journey went from pipenv to poetry to pipenv back to pip and then to pip-tools (pip-compile and pip-sync).
While both pipenv and poetry were nice and had a lot of comfort build in they broke in nasty ways and it was hard to debug so I traded the comfort for less complexity.
Re: Pipenv: Promises a Lot, Delivers Little (2020)
#4If you don’t like a tool then don’t use the tool.
Or fix what you perceive is wrong with it.
Don’t demand the tool do what you want or insist on a certain release cadence unless the developers are on your payroll.
I admittedly started skimming around halfway through but still want a refund on the time I wasted trying to determine if there was more to TFA than a whinefest.
Re: Pipenv: Promises a Lot, Delivers Little (2020)
#5I'm really sorry, but I can never quite understand what the deal is with these tools are. I understand that virtual environments are important, but how are these tools any better than
python3 -m venv .venv --prompt="foobar"
. .venv/bin/activate
pip install -r requirements.txt
Whenever I see all these other tools I just get the feeling like there's some big elephant in the room that everyone is battling against, but I've never come across it as a python dev, and the moment I try to user/understand these tools I feel like they're against the "keep it simple, stupid" vibe that python gives me.
There's auto-venv for the truly lazy (like me) but other than that I don't rely on any of these Env/requirement wrappers or tools in any of my projects (virtualenv-wrapper for work but that was in their setup guide).
Is it a legacy thing?
Re: Pipenv: Promises a Lot, Delivers Little (2020)
#6It's a bit of an old post, and yes Pipenv is not the go-to tool anymore. pip-tools is okay for people that really, really love their requirements.txt; otherwise we tend to go with Poetry at work. Any folks having a good experience with PDM https://github.com/pdm-project/pdm ?
How is the maturity/stability of Poetry these days? I despise Pipenv, and was hoping to push for a switch to Poetry at my place of work a couple years ago, but I ran into blocking bugs across multiple versions (latest N versions affected by bug A, prior M versions affected by bug B). Had to chock it up to "not yet mature enough" and resign myself to the absurd lock times and countless terrible behaviors of Pipenv.
Re: Pipenv: Promises a Lot, Delivers Little (2020)
#7I'm really sorry, but I can never quite understand what the deal is with these tools are. I understand that virtual environments are important, but how are these tools any better than python3 -m venv .venv --prompt="foobar" . .venv/bin/activate pip install -r requirements.txt ? Whenever I see all these other tools I just get the feeling like there's some big elephant in the room that everyone is battling against, but…
I just use venv but don’t fix dependencies. We often develop new packages and fixing every dependency’s version sounds like unnecessary effort.
With sensibly written setup.cfg files, we just “pip install” all our packages with no issues. Pip’s dependency resolver has come a long way since 2019.
Re: Pipenv: Promises a Lot, Delivers Little (2020)
#8I'm really sorry, but I can never quite understand what the deal is with these tools are. I understand that virtual environments are important, but how are these tools any better than python3 -m venv .venv --prompt="foobar" . .venv/bin/activate pip install -r requirements.txt ? Whenever I see all these other tools I just get the feeling like there's some big elephant in the room that everyone is battling against, but…
The main problems with just "pip install -r requirements.txt" are that you might get a different result the next time you run it if a (transitive) dependency has released a new version, and that upgrading dependencies is an error-prone manual task. Both pipenv and poetry try to solve these problems.
Re: Pipenv: Promises a Lot, Delivers Little (2020)
#9My journey went from pipenv to poetry to pipenv back to pip and then to pip-tools (pip-compile and pip-sync). While both pipenv and poetry were nice and had a lot of comfort build in they broke in nasty ways and it was hard to debug so I traded the comfort for less complexity.
At work, we have large projects that use lots of technologies, including for example Java, Erlang, Rust, Kotlin, Groovy, even a little bit of C code, which tends to be problematic... and Python.
Our developer environment is well polished and can be started up with installing a couple of packages then running a single command... very nice, except for the Python part , which is extremely tiny compared to the other stacks.
We used pipenv, but that broke very often, so we moved to Poetry... it looked like it worked for a while, but as we got more people, specially ones using Linux and Mac M1 had to spend lots of time fixing issues with Poetry/Python... something to do with cpython dependencies downloaded for the wrong architecture.
We've had zero, absolutely zero issues with all the other stacks. We're trying to find solutions, but IMHO we'll just have to bite the bullet and re-write the small Python component we have into any of the other many languages we use without any issues.
Re: Pipenv: Promises a Lot, Delivers Little (2020)
#10Is there a reliable source that tells what the current recommended way of doing this in Python is?
I’ve been using Anaconda and been finding that it install incompatible versions of jupyter and ipython dependencies and that a lot of tools I need only work from pip, so I’ve been wondering if maybe I should just switch to the “pythonic way of doing it” and have absolutely no idea what that is.