A catalog of naturally occurring images whose Apple NeuralHash is identical
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Re: A catalog of naturally occurring images whose Apple NeuralHash is identical
#2Is it really a catalogue when there only are two of them?
I find it amusing that they probably ran this tool against a set of millions or even billions of images and this is the best they could come up with. They are practically praising Apple here lmao
Re: A catalog of naturally occurring images whose Apple NeuralHash is identical
#3Sigh, for the last time, it doesn't actually matter if the NeuralHash is identical. You need multiple images matching, and then the images are compared by another system on Apple's end, which you don't know anything about.
The system is specifically designed so that colliding images does not pose a threat to the user.
NeuralHash and the CSAM scanning is grotesque, but please, criticize it for what it is, not some bullshit that is easily dismissed as technical ignorance.
Re: A catalog of naturally occurring images whose Apple NeuralHash is identical
#4Sigh, for the last time, it doesn't actually matter if the NeuralHash is identical. You need multiple images matching, and then the images are compared by another system on Apple's end, which you don't know anything about. The system is specifically designed so that colliding images does not pose a threat to the user. NeuralHash and the CSAM scanning is grotesque, but please, criticize it for what it is, not some bul…
We still need to rely on the automated "secret backend system" that nobody supposedly knows anything about
Re: A catalog of naturally occurring images whose Apple NeuralHash is identical
#5Sigh, for the last time, it doesn't actually matter if the NeuralHash is identical. You need multiple images matching, and then the images are compared by another system on Apple's end, which you don't know anything about. The system is specifically designed so that colliding images does not pose a threat to the user. NeuralHash and the CSAM scanning is grotesque, but please, criticize it for what it is, not some bul…
Then let's get rid of the NeuralHash entirely, if it doesn't matter, right?
If it's a critical part of the system, then it should be inspected thoroughly. If Apple claims a minuscule chance of a hash collision, and the reality is that collisions are relatively common, that significantly changes the requirements for the backend system, which Apple keeps secret. We have every right to believe, bbased oon ppublic info, that Apple was expecting that NeuralHash would be almost fool-proof, leaving the backend system to be a rubber stamp. This would be tragic.
Re: A catalog of naturally occurring images whose Apple NeuralHash is identical
#6Sigh, for the last time, it doesn't actually matter if the NeuralHash is identical. You need multiple images matching, and then the images are compared by another system on Apple's end, which you don't know anything about. The system is specifically designed so that colliding images does not pose a threat to the user. NeuralHash and the CSAM scanning is grotesque, but please, criticize it for what it is, not some bul…
Come on.
Re: A catalog of naturally occurring images whose Apple NeuralHash is identical
#7Lmao no one knows how works Apple production code/algorithm but already did assumptions.
Re: A catalog of naturally occurring images whose Apple NeuralHash is identical
#8> a catalog
Can two collisions really be called a catalog?
Re: A catalog of naturally occurring images whose Apple NeuralHash is identical
#9Sigh, for the last time, it doesn't actually matter if the NeuralHash is identical. You need multiple images matching, and then the images are compared by another system on Apple's end, which you don't know anything about. The system is specifically designed so that colliding images does not pose a threat to the user. NeuralHash and the CSAM scanning is grotesque, but please, criticize it for what it is, not some bul…
Then let's get rid of the NeuralHash entirely, if it doesn't matter, right? If it's a critical part of the system, then it should be inspected thoroughly. If Apple claims a minuscule chance of a hash collision, and the reality is that collisions are relatively common, that significantly changes the requirements for the backend system, which Apple keeps secret. We have every right to believe, bbased oon ppublic info,…
The point in the NeuralHash and PSI system is to preserve user privacy as far as possible. From a technical standpoint, it is not essential - a NeuralHash function that returns 0x0000… for everything would still catch CSAM. It's just that it would upload every single image on the user's device.
Now, how well this NeuralHash does preserve privacy is a different question, and /not/ one that is being answered by the original post here. In fact, I've not seen anybody look at the hash distribution over natural images, which would be an actual argument against the system.
Re: A catalog of naturally occurring images whose Apple NeuralHash is identical
#10Sigh, for the last time, it doesn't actually matter if the NeuralHash is identical. You need multiple images matching, and then the images are compared by another system on Apple's end, which you don't know anything about. The system is specifically designed so that colliding images does not pose a threat to the user. NeuralHash and the CSAM scanning is grotesque, but please, criticize it for what it is, not some bul…
We still need to rely on the automated "secret backend system" that nobody supposedly knows anything about
You (or at least Apple's customers) trust in and rely on Apple's proprietary software to do its job all the time. How is this different? I find this argument very weak.