Demolishing Soviet Modernism
tribunemag.co.uk
Demolishing Soviet Modernism
1–10 of 39 posts
Re: Demolishing Soviet Modernism
#2> And the use of the term ‘expedition’ carries orientalist associations
?
Re: Demolishing Soviet Modernism
#3> And the use of the term ‘expedition’ carries orientalist associations ?
Orientalism is the term coined for the Euro- or America-centric views of the Eastern Hemisphere during the Soviet period and the 19th century. The idea that there was this cohesive concept of "The Orient" as a Mysterious Other, waiting to be settled or tamed by the righteous West, when in reality the "orient" was just a place populated by regular people with their own culture to be sure but perhaps not so different from small-town USA (or wherever) as one might think.
What I suppose they're driving at when they say that "expedition" carries "orientalist associations" is that describing a trip to post-Soviet states in today's world as "an expedition" is reductionist in that it implies those places are akin to the savage frontier into which Europeans and Americans ventured in search of land to appropriate from the indigenous populations.
Now, I'm sympathetic to the idea that a Dagestan native might take umbrage at a trip to their home being referred to as an expedition, as if Dagestan is wild and untamed frontier ripe for staking land claims and colonization. It's somebody's home, hypothetically.
But considering the author is a Russian who probably speaks English as an nth language, I'm not so sure that I'd agree with the TFArticle's characterization of the term "expedition". I speak French and my command of the vocabulary is not nearly as good as in English for me. Words have subtext and nuance, and unless you master a language you're bound to choose inapt words that might give off the wrong connotation inadvertently.
It reads like virtue-signalling to me on the part of Valeria Costa-Kostritsky.
Re: Demolishing Soviet Modernism
#4There's a good reason to demolish much of that. It is overwhelming [1] in scale very ugly and not even painting it would help much. This building on the photo of Elista is nothing to look at.
But that photo from Makhachkala looks rather pretty and on a human scale. I imagine when the trees are green it must be a nice place (judging only from this one photo, don't know it IRL).
[1] The Ship https://www.google.com/maps/@55.7108903,37.6218164,3a,75y,21...
Re: Demolishing Soviet Modernism
#5> And the use of the term ‘expedition’ carries orientalist associations ?
Orientalism is the term coined for the Euro- or America-centric views of the Eastern Hemisphere during the Soviet period and the 19th century. The idea that there was this cohesive concept of "The Orient" as a Mysterious Other, waiting to be settled or tamed by the righteous West, when in reality the "orient" was just a place populated by regular people with their own culture to be sure but perhaps not so different f…
> Orientalism is the term coined for the Euro- or America-centric views of the Eastern Hemisphere
Somewhat ironically, the "Orientalism" you are referring to is an American-centric interpretation, which doesn't really have global acceptance as a theory. Orientalism was attempted to be redefined single handedly redefined in 1978 by an American professor (Edward Said with a book of the same name).
Notably, America is pretty unique in considering "oriental" an offensive term - Europe & elsewhere use the term freely without any negative connotations.
Re: Demolishing Soviet Modernism
#6There's a good reason to demolish much of that. It is overwhelming [1] in scale very ugly and not even painting it would help much. This building on the photo of Elista is nothing to look at. But that photo from Makhachkala looks rather pretty and on a human scale. I imagine when the trees are green it must be a nice place (judging only from this one photo, don't know it IRL). [1] The Ship https://www.google.com/maps…
I agree that many if not most of these buildings are ugly. Many should be preserved though; normally this is done by a decision of a local body including architects and other experts.
These things aside, for someone visiting Crimea, for example, these buildings do matter a lot. They basically move you in time. You can actually get a strong feeling of things that you know maybe from very early childhood or mostly from books or documentaries. It is very, very different from anything you could see in the West.
Re: Demolishing Soviet Modernism
#7Earlier quoted context omitted.
Orientalism is the term coined for the Euro- or America-centric views of the Eastern Hemisphere during the Soviet period and the 19th century. The idea that there was this cohesive concept of "The Orient" as a Mysterious Other, waiting to be settled or tamed by the righteous West, when in reality the "orient" was just a place populated by regular people with their own culture to be sure but perhaps not so different f…
> Orientalism is the term coined for the Euro- or America-centric views of the Eastern Hemisphere Somewhat ironically, the "Orientalism" you are referring to is an American-centric interpretation, which doesn't really have global acceptance as a theory. Orientalism was attempted to be redefined single handedly redefined in 1978 by an American professor (Edward Said with a book of the same name). Notably, America is p…
> Europe & elsewhere use the term freely without any negative connotations.
You are wrong, some do, some don't. I would debate that its reduction is usage is because of the negative connotations, but let's leave it at that.
Edward Said has been hugely influential also in Europe's academia and intellectual discourse. I would also be astonished if there had been no influence in "the orient".
Re: Demolishing Soviet Modernism
#8> And the use of the term ‘expedition’ carries orientalist associations ?
Orientalism is the term coined for the Euro- or America-centric views of the Eastern Hemisphere during the Soviet period and the 19th century. The idea that there was this cohesive concept of "The Orient" as a Mysterious Other, waiting to be settled or tamed by the righteous West, when in reality the "orient" was just a place populated by regular people with their own culture to be sure but perhaps not so different f…
> The idea that there was this cohesive concept of "The Orient" as a Mysterious Other, waiting to be settled or tamed by the righteous West
That's an interpretation I never heard. Here in France (and in Europe as far as I know), Orientalism is an artistic current from the 18th to the early 20th focused on taking inspiration from the faraway, exotic, attractive Eastern cultures. To make a crude comparison, it would be much closer to “weeaboos” (albeit larger in scope, ranging from Maghreb to Afghanistan) than to the White Man Burden.
Although there were a lot of cliches born there (the Turkish harems, the Arabian cheikhs, the wild and free Bedouins, the proud and fierce Afghan warrior, etc.), there was definitely no feeling of need of settling or taming, as the whole point was the fascination for these cultures that hadn't really seeped through Europe until then.
Re: Demolishing Soviet Modernism
#9Earlier quoted context omitted.
Orientalism is the term coined for the Euro- or America-centric views of the Eastern Hemisphere during the Soviet period and the 19th century. The idea that there was this cohesive concept of "The Orient" as a Mysterious Other, waiting to be settled or tamed by the righteous West, when in reality the "orient" was just a place populated by regular people with their own culture to be sure but perhaps not so different f…
> The idea that there was this cohesive concept of "The Orient" as a Mysterious Other, waiting to be settled or tamed by the righteous West That's an interpretation I never heard. Here in France (and in Europe as far as I know), Orientalism is an artistic current from the 18th to the early 20th focused on taking inspiration from the faraway, exotic, attractive Eastern cultures. To make a crude comparison, it would be…
Considering that all of Africa and parts of the Middle East were partitioned and colonised by the European powers in the late 19th century, and India had been colonised much earlier, and China had been pacified by the Opium Wars (and still hasn't forgiven the UK for those) I'm not sure how you can say there was no interest in settling or taming.
The artistic cliches were froth that made these distant locations somewhat comprehensible to home audiences. Not incidentally, they also sold them as investment opportunities and potential locations for personal commercial and military adventures - and occasionally artistic and erotic adventures too.
Re: Demolishing Soviet Modernism
#10I'm pretty sick of modernism, having grown up in a Canadian city that made heavy use of it in he 50-70s. There are some gems, but mostly it doesn't make for an appealing style when a lot of the office and apartment buildings bet heavily on it. Some of more luxury modernist homes and government buildings are exceptions, but you do have to have a sense of why they're neat, because they otherwise feel very conservative.