The Awful German Language (1880)
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The Awful German Language (1880)
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Re: The Awful German Language (1880)
#2One of the Twain's famous examples that language is full of exceptions and hard to learn is that the word for girl is neuter.
However, that shows that he didn't understand things all that well. Or the message was more important than the facts. While in general gender does indeed not follow much logic and needs to be learned by heart it's not true for this class of words. For derived words the gender is determined by the kind of derivation. E. g. diminutives are always neuter, and so is the word for girl, which technically is a diminutive, even if today's speakers don't see it like that.
Re: The Awful German Language (1880)
#3[deleted]
Re: The Awful German Language (1880)
#4> It is a bleak Day. Hear the Rain, how he pours, and the Hail, how he rattles; and see the Snow, how he drifts along, and oh the Mud, how deep he is! Ah the poor Fishwife, it is stuck fast in the Mire; it has dropped its Basket of Fishes; and its Hands have been cut by the Scales as it seized some of the falling Creatures; and one Scale has even got into its Eye. And it cannot get her out. It opens its Mouth to cry for Help; but if any Sound comes out of him, alas he is drowned by the raging of the Storm.
As a german, accept my apologies.
Though I don't get which word for "fishwife" exactly he was referring to that has a neutral gender.
Closest translations that come to mind are "Fischersfrau", "Fischerin" - or even "Fischverkäuferin" if you want to be bureaucratic. But all of these are grammatically female.
edit: TIL "Fischweib" is a well-established word (and indeed neutral). Wikipedia translates it to "mermaid" though, which doesn't really seem to fit the story.
Re: The Awful German Language (1880)
#5One of the Twain's famous examples that language is full of exceptions and hard to learn is that the word for girl is neuter. However, that shows that he didn't understand things all that well. Or the message was more important than the facts. While in general gender does indeed not follow much logic and needs to be learned by heart it's not true for this class of words. For derived words the gender is determined by…
So right, if he knew more he could give better examples ('das Weib', a nowadays pejorative term for woman (related to 'wife' presumably) doesn't have that diminutive structure and is still neutral), but his point still stands? This feels like Gettier problem territory. :P
> diminutives are always neuter
I assume you mean to only talk about "-chen"-suffixed diminutives right? [ there are other kinds of diminutive construction in German that aren't neutral - e.g. -ling , Zögling, takes masculine ]
Re: The Awful German Language (1880)
#6One of the Twain's famous examples that language is full of exceptions and hard to learn is that the word for girl is neuter. However, that shows that he didn't understand things all that well. Or the message was more important than the facts. While in general gender does indeed not follow much logic and needs to be learned by heart it's not true for this class of words. For derived words the gender is determined by…
So right, if he knew more he could give better examples ('das Weib', a nowadays pejorative term for woman (related to 'wife' presumably) doesn't have that diminutive structure and is still neutral), but his point still stands? This feels like Gettier problem territory. :P > diminutives are always neuter I assume you mean to only talk about "-chen"-suffixed diminutives right? [ there are other kinds of diminutive cons…
> I assume you mean to only talk about "-chen"-suffixed diminutives right? [ there are other kinds of diminutive construction in German that aren't neutral - e.g. -ling , Zögling, takes masculine ]
Which is even more fun as -ling is generally seen as more objectifying than -chen, even though -chen is neutral and -ling is male.
Re: The Awful German Language (1880)
#7> It is a bleak Day. Hear the Rain, how he pours, and the Hail, how he rattles; and see the Snow, how he drifts along, and oh the Mud, how deep he is! Ah the poor Fishwife, it is stuck fast in the Mire; it has dropped its Basket of Fishes; and its Hands have been cut by the Scales as it seized some of the falling Creatures; and one Scale has even got into its Eye. And it cannot get her out. It opens its Mouth to cry…
Das Fischweib
Quite literally translated. "Weib" in German is more close to "broad" in English, it's often but not necessarily derogatory.
Re: The Awful German Language (1880)
#8It's our revenge for the "th", my dear Englishman.
Re: The Awful German Language (1880)
#9> It is a bleak Day. Hear the Rain, how he pours, and the Hail, how he rattles; and see the Snow, how he drifts along, and oh the Mud, how deep he is! Ah the poor Fishwife, it is stuck fast in the Mire; it has dropped its Basket of Fishes; and its Hands have been cut by the Scales as it seized some of the falling Creatures; and one Scale has even got into its Eye. And it cannot get her out. It opens its Mouth to cry…
Perhaps “Weib”
An outdated,today slightly pejorative, word for “Frau”
But to me the term “das Fischerweib” doesn’t sound familiar either, so I am not sure
Re: The Awful German Language (1880)
#10> It is a bleak Day. Hear the Rain, how he pours, and the Hail, how he rattles; and see the Snow, how he drifts along, and oh the Mud, how deep he is! Ah the poor Fishwife, it is stuck fast in the Mire; it has dropped its Basket of Fishes; and its Hands have been cut by the Scales as it seized some of the falling Creatures; and one Scale has even got into its Eye. And it cannot get her out. It opens its Mouth to cry…
Perhaps “Weib” An outdated,today slightly pejorative, word for “Frau” But to me the term “das Fischerweib” doesn’t sound familiar either, so I am not sure
"Fischerweib" could work. Doesn't sound familiar to me either, but it's a valid compound word at least...