How do plants extract nutrients from the ground?
permaculture.co.uk
How do plants extract nutrients from the ground?
1–10 of 59 posts
Re: How do plants extract nutrients from the ground?
#2I've been doing quite a lot of gardening in the past 3 years.
There is a plethora of home gardeners and/or permaculture resources on the internet that generally like as much organic matter as possible.
I some of that strategy as it's convenient at home to supply nutrients to plants without much work.
But, I can't help but feel it's all sort of wish washy science.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHZHy3_7PPE
^ I found this guys videos much more satisfactory to "need the facts" mindset. He uses knowledge from the agricultural industry instead of the "organic" approach.
In short, plant roots actually love sand, silt and clay, and actually don't like organic matter around their roots as it causes rot. He suggests that you should always just top feed your plants. (throw compost around the top of the plants only) When people say don't over water your plants, it's not because of the water, but because of the organic matter in your pots mixing with water and making sewerage. (e.g. this is why hydroponics works)
Anyway, I'd suggest watching some of his videos on perfect soil for an opinion you don't find much of in home gardening videos.
(This was touchy for me because when I started gardened everyone described my soil as sandy, shit and told me to amend it with X, Y and Z. I was too lazy to listen at the time and noticed that my plants were perfectly fine growing in sand as long as I top fed regularly.)
Re: How do plants extract nutrients from the ground?
#3I've been doing quite a lot of gardening in the past 3 years. There is a plethora of home gardeners and/or permaculture resources on the internet that generally like as much organic matter as possible. I some of that strategy as it's convenient at home to supply nutrients to plants without much work. But, I can't help but feel it's all sort of wish washy science. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHZHy3_7PPE ^ I found…
The plant roots like the right texture. If you have clay, adding organic matter releases glomalin [0] and creates aggregates that let the water drain more easily, preventing root rot and allowing them to penetrate deeper.
Each of those - sand, clay, organic matter have a pore size distribution and different pressure that it releases water at. The amount of water and the pressure that it's released at form what's called a soil matric potential graph. The important thing is balancing those so that the soil moisture is mostly held at a pressure that the roots can access . There is a soil texture pyramid that illustrates the different soil textures and mixtures.
[0] https://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/content/archive/agriculture-today...
[1] https://topsoilpros.com/what-is-a-soil-texture-chart/
The guy in the video is calling mulch compost. Compost is supposed to be made of green material which contains nitrogen and other nutrients not bark and wood chips. There are different sources of organic matter that contain different nutrients, pore distributions, etc.
Re: How do plants extract nutrients from the ground?
#4I've been doing quite a lot of gardening in the past 3 years. There is a plethora of home gardeners and/or permaculture resources on the internet that generally like as much organic matter as possible. I some of that strategy as it's convenient at home to supply nutrients to plants without much work. But, I can't help but feel it's all sort of wish washy science. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHZHy3_7PPE ^ I found…
The plant roots like the right texture. If you have clay, adding organic matter releases glomalin [0] and creates aggregates that let the water drain more easily, preventing root rot and allowing them to penetrate deeper. Each of those - sand, clay, organic matter have a pore size distribution and different pressure that it releases water at. The amount of water and the pressure that it's released at form what's call…
Thanks for the cool links.
I believe he knows what compost is, he is just being lazy about using it interchangeably with what you find at most garden shops. Most commercial bags of garden soil and compost both contain a lot of broken down wood. He is just suggesting you shouldn't really have any organic matter around your roots, except for at the top level. It's good to promote mycorrhizal fungi but only at the top layer etc
I think he mostly ranting about how commercial gardening places just sell "soil" that is mostly always comes with added "compost" e.g. https://shorturl.at/mvwzG
Where as they should sell more clay/silt/sand mixes and encourage top dressing instead.
Most people just fill their pots to the top with those bags and it leads to adverse effects.
Re: How do plants extract nutrients from the ground?
#5Earlier quoted context omitted.
The plant roots like the right texture. If you have clay, adding organic matter releases glomalin [0] and creates aggregates that let the water drain more easily, preventing root rot and allowing them to penetrate deeper. Each of those - sand, clay, organic matter have a pore size distribution and different pressure that it releases water at. The amount of water and the pressure that it's released at form what's call…
Thanks for the cool links. I believe he knows what compost is, he is just being lazy about using it interchangeably with what you find at most garden shops. Most commercial bags of garden soil and compost both contain a lot of broken down wood. He is just suggesting you shouldn't really have any organic matter around your roots, except for at the top level. It's good to promote mycorrhizal fungi but only at the top l…
Yea, you're welcome. I'm watching it rn, he def knows what he's talking about. I just disagree about the deep organic matter being beneficial, obviously don't use rotting compost as your source in a non porous soil though.
I started a company that fractures soil and injects organic matter deep, filling fractures to create drainage and sequester carbon, we use biochar - it has a sandy texture and doesn't break down very quickly because it's been pyrolyzed (anaerobic combustion that produces a charcoal/activated carbon like material that looks like black sand). Integrated pyrolyzed organic matter is how slash/burn ag works in the rainforest and is why Brazil has some soils that are black.
Re: How do plants extract nutrients from the ground?
#6I wonder how much of this rhizophagy cycle applies to plants that don't really rely on the soil for nutrients. e.g. many of the insectivore plans (venus fly trap, pitcher plant, etc.).
In fact, if you try to plant venus fly trap in rich soil, it'll probably die.
Re: How do plants extract nutrients from the ground?
#7Earlier quoted context omitted.
Thanks for the cool links. I believe he knows what compost is, he is just being lazy about using it interchangeably with what you find at most garden shops. Most commercial bags of garden soil and compost both contain a lot of broken down wood. He is just suggesting you shouldn't really have any organic matter around your roots, except for at the top level. It's good to promote mycorrhizal fungi but only at the top l…
Yea, you're welcome. I'm watching it rn, he def knows what he's talking about. I just disagree about the deep organic matter being beneficial, obviously don't use rotting compost as your source in a non porous soil though. I started a company that fractures soil and injects organic matter deep, filling fractures to create drainage and sequester carbon, we use biochar - it has a sandy texture and doesn't break down ve…
Oh that's such a cool company. I only recently got put onto Terra preta through my personal favorite gardener -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnTaWiO5Eso (he's funny lol)
I'm going to try make my own ad hoc terra preta plots for fun too. Are you able to share any more information on your company? Who is actually buying this service?
I feel like biochar is going to hit the main stream this year or next.
Going to make a compost tea and soak my bio char in it too.
> anaerobic combustion that produces a charcoal/activated carbon
I wonder if this is the trick though, not that there is organic matter down there, but that is already broken down and fully activated the charcoal.
It would also be great to know if the beneficial fungal processes happen at those depths. So many questions aha
Re: How do plants extract nutrients from the ground?
#8I wonder how much of this rhizophagy cycle applies to plants that don't really rely on the soil for nutrients. e.g. many of the insectivore plans (venus fly trap, pitcher plant, etc.). In fact, if you try to plant venus fly trap in rich soil, it'll probably die.
Most of those plants would still rely on the soil for some nutrients, I assume their history in poor soil has just led to them developing additional ways to get some nutrients. Like vitamin d in humans.
Re: How do plants extract nutrients from the ground?
#9Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yea, you're welcome. I'm watching it rn, he def knows what he's talking about. I just disagree about the deep organic matter being beneficial, obviously don't use rotting compost as your source in a non porous soil though. I started a company that fractures soil and injects organic matter deep, filling fractures to create drainage and sequester carbon, we use biochar - it has a sandy texture and doesn't break down ve…
Oh that's such a cool company. I only recently got put onto Terra preta through my personal favorite gardener -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnTaWiO5Eso (he's funny lol) I'm going to try make my own ad hoc terra preta plots for fun too. Are you able to share any more information on your company? Who is actually buying this service? I feel like biochar is going to hit the main stream this year or next. Going to ma…
That's awesome! The tea thing is a good idea. No one is buying it yet, but the plan is to have some micro rain gardens installed this spring using the tech to reduce the overall area required due to the increased drainage depth and moisture storage. It's essentially an erosion control measure until there is a carbon market and we increase automation. We will also be doing some testing with trees - remediating poor drainage with living trees that have been already been planted.
Some of the organic material breaks down really slowly, providing some nutrients to bacteria at a rate that allows the gas to escape, but yea essentially the trick is the ultra high surface area and high compressive strength so that it maintains a porous structure instead of compacting into an anaerobic environment.
Yes, beneficial fungi reach much deeper than roots due to the higher penetrative ability of hyphae and they can still extract stuff from whatever depth they reach.
Long term I want to be able to do what the guy in the video is doing but with out all that shoveling...
Re: How do plants extract nutrients from the ground?
#10Earlier quoted context omitted.
Thanks for the cool links. I believe he knows what compost is, he is just being lazy about using it interchangeably with what you find at most garden shops. Most commercial bags of garden soil and compost both contain a lot of broken down wood. He is just suggesting you shouldn't really have any organic matter around your roots, except for at the top level. It's good to promote mycorrhizal fungi but only at the top l…
Yea, you're welcome. I'm watching it rn, he def knows what he's talking about. I just disagree about the deep organic matter being beneficial, obviously don't use rotting compost as your source in a non porous soil though. I started a company that fractures soil and injects organic matter deep, filling fractures to create drainage and sequester carbon, we use biochar - it has a sandy texture and doesn't break down ve…
Is it beneficial in anyway to use wood that burned in wildfires (very hot fires that burned most trees and shrubs down through the roots, but also left a lot of nearly fully burned trees and shrubs above ground) as part of the mix or is only pyrolyzed material useful?