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Launch HN: Stoke (YC W21) – Low cost, on-demand delivery to and from space

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Launch HN: Stoke (YC W21) – Low cost, on-demand delivery to and from space

#1
Hi HN, Andy and Tom here from STOKE (http://www.stoke-space.com). We aim to deliver satellites directly to their final orbit at 20x lower cost. We’ll do this using 100% reusable rockets designed to fly daily.

Even the most advanced rockets today reuse only part of the vehicle (the first stage) a handful of times (the record number is 8). The upper stages of all launch vehicles are thrown away with every flight. That drives cost into each mission, and makes the flight cadence production rate limited. Rapid reuse of both stages breaks this production-limited paradigm, enabling order-of-magnitude improvements to both the cost and availability of launch. We call this ‘Reusability 2.0’.

Our team has spent the last 10+ years at Blue Origin and SpaceX working on amazing programs like Merlin 1C, BE-3, BE-4, and BE-3U. We took BE-4 from a literal blank page up through full scale testing. We’ll never forget the night we fired the full-scale engine for the first time – an intense display of raw power, the culmination of years of toil, and an unforgettable moment!

We’re massive supporters of the Blue Origin and SpaceX missions to the Moon and Mars. Humanity needs these to be successful. Over the last five years, though, we’ve witnessed a radical shift in the space economy. Hundreds of satellite companies are entering diverse markets enabled by space based IoT, earth observation, telecom, positioning, and other applications. In fact, we’re certain that all four major engines of economic growth – communication, transportation, manufacturing, and energy production – will be anchored in space within 20 years. It’s a massive shift from what was historically a government-centric industry.

This got us thinking. If we’re going to have a permanent and sustainable presence in space, and if we’re going to use it for all of our benefit, then we need one ingredient more than anything: a robust, diverse, and profitable space-based economy. It became our passion to focus on that goal, and not any other.

Since then we’ve thought hard about the end-state of the commercial space sector and realized that despite all of the progress in the last decade, the truth is that space flight is still in its infancy. Costs are still high, availability remains poor, and direct flights to final destinations are exceedingly rare. There are still orders of magnitude improvements available in all of these areas!

To make this happen, more focus is needed on 100% reusable rockets designed to operate with aircraft-like regularity and designed specifically for the commercial sector. That’s the key to really unlocking the space economy, and that’s why we founded STOKE.

Our mission starts with building a 100% reusable second stage. The design combines proven technology elements, high structural and thermal margins, and passive failure modes in critical subsystems to allow for rapid turnaround. Its engine performance will have 20% higher than any other small or medium launcher, enabling a diverse set of missions to LEO, MEO, GTO, TLI, and beyond. The upper stage will also offer unique return from orbit “down-mass” capacity. We’re starting here because routine reuse of upper stages is the last big domino to fall on the way to redefining the cost structure of launch.

In the past 10 months we’ve hired seven of the smartest people we know, developed our hardware on plan, won contracts with USAF, NASA, and NSF, and recently closed over $9M in seed funding.

We’re super excited about the team and technology we’re building, and we’re incredibly lucky to be alive for this New Space revolution. We hope we can move the ball one step further, and can’t wait to hear your thoughts!

Re: Launch HN: Stoke (YC W21) – Low cost, on-demand delivery to and from space

#3
> It’s also the first launch vehicle to offer return from orbit “down-mass” capacit

Wasn't the shuttle first? What about Dream Chaser?

Is your second stage designed to fly on top of New Glenn's first stage? Do the fins on the New Glenn provide enough authority to counteract the control surfaces on your stage? Or are you planning on flying encapsulated like Dream Chaser does?

Re: Launch HN: Stoke (YC W21) – Low cost, on-demand delivery to and from space

#4

> It’s also the first launch vehicle to offer return from orbit “down-mass” capacit Wasn't the shuttle first? What about Dream Chaser? Is your second stage designed to fly on top of New Glenn's first stage? Do the fins on the New Glenn provide enough authority to counteract the control surfaces on your stage? Or are you planning on flying encapsulated like Dream Chaser does?

I'm also confused by the present tense being used there by the OP. "It's also the first." So it already exists? It has been tested to orbit and back? Doubtful. Do they really think they will beat Starship to orbit? Starship will certainly be added to the list of launch vehicles to offer "down-mass".

The OP's whole comment fails to mention Starship a single time, which is probably not a competitor you want to bring up with investors since it is designed to do just about everything, but acting like SpaceX hasn't been publicly developing Starship for years now is weird to me. Starship development is moving fast.

Regardless of the above, I am really excited to see more activity in the New Space scene. The market will be so big that it shouldn't be a winner-takes-all market... there seems to be plenty of room for more companies to grow the space market faster. The more the merrier.

I just want people to be transparent about current realities... and using present tense for something that seemingly doesn't actually exist, ignoring the existence of Starship, claiming to be the first launch vehicle to offer "down-mass"? hmm.

Re: Launch HN: Stoke (YC W21) – Low cost, on-demand delivery to and from space

#5
My understanding was that a rocket is developed around its engines. What engines are you designing on top of?

Are you only developing the second stage? If so, what first stage are you planning to launch off of?

What is your target payload mass to LEO?

And, well, where does your company fit in a post-SpaceX Starship orbital economy?

Re: Launch HN: Stoke (YC W21) – Low cost, on-demand delivery to and from space

#6
Designing the second stage first is ballsy, it means that you're dependent on someone else's first stage for launch.

But it's also brilliant. With Starship and Neutron coming on the market in the next few years, and their reusability enabling dramatic cost reductions, any launch provider in the future is going to be either fully reusable, massively government subsidized, or dead.

There are other rocket companies pursuing first stage reusability, most notably Blue Origin. To remain viable they'll either have to build a reusable second stage, partner with somebody who does, or acquire them.

Edit: I may have misread the Neutron announcement, and they haven't announced full reusability, yet. I still believe they will eventually do so, but...

Re: Launch HN: Stoke (YC W21) – Low cost, on-demand delivery to and from space

#8

> It’s also the first launch vehicle to offer return from orbit “down-mass” capacit Wasn't the shuttle first? What about Dream Chaser? Is your second stage designed to fly on top of New Glenn's first stage? Do the fins on the New Glenn provide enough authority to counteract the control surfaces on your stage? Or are you planning on flying encapsulated like Dream Chaser does?

Sorry for the confusion! There are plenty of space vehicles that have had "down-mass" capacity - Gemini, Soyuz, Apollo, Dragon, Shuttle, X-37B, etc. They are all spacecraft, although Shuttle is a close in-between. The distinction here is this is a true upper stage, which can also return items from orbit.

We are looking to serve a complementary market to New Glenn and are not planning to fly on that vehicle.

Re: Launch HN: Stoke (YC W21) – Low cost, on-demand delivery to and from space

#9
post #4

> It’s also the first launch vehicle to offer return from orbit “down-mass” capacit Wasn't the shuttle first? What about Dream Chaser? Is your second stage designed to fly on top of New Glenn's first stage? Do the fins on the New Glenn provide enough authority to counteract the control surfaces on your stage? Or are you planning on flying encapsulated like Dream Chaser does?

I'm also confused by the present tense being used there by the OP. "It's also the first." So it already exists? It has been tested to orbit and back? Doubtful. Do they really think they will beat Starship to orbit? Starship will certainly be added to the list of launch vehicles to offer "down-mass". The OP's whole comment fails to mention Starship a single time, which is probably not a competitor you want to bring up…

Thanks for correctly noting the tense - I have revised to future tense and apologize for any misgivings.

Starship is amazing and we are huge fans! That is an enormous vehicle though, designed for a different purpose. It is like comparing a freight train to a Sprinter van, if that makes sense.

Re: Launch HN: Stoke (YC W21) – Low cost, on-demand delivery to and from space

#10

My understanding was that a rocket is developed around its engines. What engines are you designing on top of? Are you only developing the second stage? If so, what first stage are you planning to launch off of? What is your target payload mass to LEO? And, well, where does your company fit in a post-SpaceX Starship orbital economy?

You're exactly right, which is why we're developing our own engines. Where Starship will be the freight train, we will be the Sprinter van.
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