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Can we please discuss Big Tech's suppression of oppressed people?

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Can we please discuss Big Tech's suppression of oppressed people?

#1

Post by excelthrow »

I have been a long time lurker on Hacker News. I love the community you have built here, and I have learned a lot from the articles, and even more so, the comments shared here. This place has been a reaffirming corner of the internet with many smart, thoughtful and kind people for many years now. In light of this, I'd like to shed light on two oppressive regimes in India and Sri Lanka that have been stifling peaceful protests, and pressuring Big Tech (specifically Instagram, Facebook, YouTube and Spotify) to remove content related to them.

What I DO think warrants a long, introspective look at ourselves and our employers is the fact that these governments - often with long, documented histories of oppression, murder, rape, censorship, and torture - are successfully pressuring first-world tech companies into silencing people across the world (not just their own citizens). The people who fled these regimes cannot engage in free speech in their new homes, because Big Tech all too easily puts commerce over conscience.

Some examples from the last week:

- YouTube taking down music videos in support of Punjabi farmers' protests [1] The Indian farmers' protests have been well covered (especially since Rihanna tweeted about it). Is taking down music videos supporting protesters what a company that 'Does no evil' do?

- Sri Lanka's 70 years of oppression against it's Tamil minority is well-documented, but recent protests for accountability less so [2]. Is Instagram's censorship of the #eelam and #tamileelam hashtags - which refer to the traditional homeland [2], fitting for a company that has found itself - for better or for worse - the biggest platform for speech in the world? Does Facebook really need to bend to the will of a government that denies it's murder of over 100,000 minority citizens? Should Spotify be removing their music?

Re: Can we please discuss Big Tech's suppression of oppressed people?

#2

Post by excelthrow »

Continued:

---------------------------------

I understand that automated algorithms make a lot of these decisions, but I hope not everyone working with these companies is complacent enough to shift the blame onto some zeros-and-ones. I don't know if this post will bring about "change" but with so many of us tech workers here, I think this is a great platform to discuss these. The best time to discuss this has passed, but now is the next-best time.

I DO NOT WISH TO MAKE THIS A POLITICAL DEBATE, and I trust the great mods here will remove such content here.

India may well be trying to do right by farmers, as they claim. Sri Lanka may have worries about national security, as they claim. Hacker News has not been the place for these discussions.

[1] https://www.india.com/technology/youtube-pulls-down-punjabi-...

[2] https://www.hrw.org/news/2021/02/09/thousands-march-justice-...

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eelam

Re: Can we please discuss Big Tech's suppression of oppressed people?

#3

Post by La1n »

excelthrow wrote: post #2

Continued: --------------------------------- I understand that automated algorithms make a lot of these decisions, but I hope not everyone working with these companies is complacent enough to shift the blame onto some zeros-and-ones. I don't know if this post will bring about "change" but with so many of us tech workers here, I think this is a great platform to discuss these. The best time to discuss this has passed,…

>I DO NOT WISH TO MAKE THIS A POLITICAL DEBATE

I agree this is an interesting topic and a real issue, but with words like "oppressive regimes", and "Big Tech all too easily puts commerce over conscience.", I don't see how this can be approached from a non-political angle.

edit: Not to throw it on the words that were used, but I think this is an inherently political issue.

Re: Can we please discuss Big Tech's suppression of oppressed people?

#4

Post by fire7000 »

La1n wrote: post #3
excelthrow wrote: post #2

Continued: --------------------------------- I understand that automated algorithms make a lot of these decisions, but I hope not everyone working with these companies is complacent enough to shift the blame onto some zeros-and-ones. I don't know if this post will bring about "change" but with so many of us tech workers here, I think this is a great platform to discuss these. The best time to discuss this has passed,…

>I DO NOT WISH TO MAKE THIS A POLITICAL DEBATE I agree this is an interesting topic and a real issue, but with words like "oppressive regimes", and "Big Tech all too easily puts commerce over conscience.", I don't see how this can be approached from a non-political angle. edit: Not to throw it on the words that were used, but I think this is an inherently political issue.

It's really simple, stop being arrogant. Stop assuming you will understand something while "others" aren't smart enough. Stop Censoring Period. If your whole basis of winning an argument is to have no debate, then that says more about the strength of your argument than it does about theirs.

Re: Can we please discuss Big Tech's suppression of oppressed people?

#5

Post by hprotagonist »

La1n wrote: post #3
excelthrow wrote: post #2

Continued: --------------------------------- I understand that automated algorithms make a lot of these decisions, but I hope not everyone working with these companies is complacent enough to shift the blame onto some zeros-and-ones. I don't know if this post will bring about "change" but with so many of us tech workers here, I think this is a great platform to discuss these. The best time to discuss this has passed,…

>I DO NOT WISH TO MAKE THIS A POLITICAL DEBATE I agree this is an interesting topic and a real issue, but with words like "oppressive regimes", and "Big Tech all too easily puts commerce over conscience.", I don't see how this can be approached from a non-political angle. edit: Not to throw it on the words that were used, but I think this is an inherently political issue.

"i want to talk about governments but not politics" is a fairly incoherent position.

Re: Can we please discuss Big Tech's suppression of oppressed people?

#6

Post by tpirx »

excelthrow wrote: post #2

Continued: --------------------------------- I understand that automated algorithms make a lot of these decisions, but I hope not everyone working with these companies is complacent enough to shift the blame onto some zeros-and-ones. I don't know if this post will bring about "change" but with so many of us tech workers here, I think this is a great platform to discuss these. The best time to discuss this has passed,…

Dissenting opinions don't do well here.

Completely reasonable discussion to promote yet you are pretty heavily downvoted.

Re: Can we please discuss Big Tech's suppression of oppressed people?

#8

Post by Psychlist »

La1n wrote: post #3
excelthrow wrote: post #2

Continued: --------------------------------- I understand that automated algorithms make a lot of these decisions, but I hope not everyone working with these companies is complacent enough to shift the blame onto some zeros-and-ones. I don't know if this post will bring about "change" but with so many of us tech workers here, I think this is a great platform to discuss these. The best time to discuss this has passed,…

>I DO NOT WISH TO MAKE THIS A POLITICAL DEBATE I agree this is an interesting topic and a real issue, but with words like "oppressive regimes", and "Big Tech all too easily puts commerce over conscience.", I don't see how this can be approached from a non-political angle. edit: Not to throw it on the words that were used, but I think this is an inherently political issue.

Perhaps they mean "I don't want to get into the specific politics, I'd prefer to discuss the generic position from big tech that they help governments suppress news of human rights violations".

In other words, "should big tech do things like this"

Rather than "{thing X} is wrong and big tech is suppressing news of that exact thing. Let's talk about whether thing X is really wrong, or whether it's really newsworthy"

Re: Can we please discuss Big Tech's suppression of oppressed people?

#9

Post by idealism »

Tim Cook, in a creepy speech[1], had the audacity to cite the following as his moral dictum for us all, and the reason why he must censor you and me: "Do not be indifferent to the bloodshed of your fellow man."

He says this while frequently hobnobbing with the likes of MBS at his HQ and overseas.[2]

I guess that whole "being indifferent to bloodshed" rule doesn't apply to censorious industrialist oligarchs like himself and his friends. Sure seems quite indifferent to bloodshed to me. As expected.

The public couldn't ever cancel Tim Cook, though; that would be blasphemy! Ask MBS what he thinks should happen to blasphemers.

[1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvPBZCitHsA [2]: https://i.insider.com/5c63d7f62628984cf0097cd4?width=700

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