The UK’s points-based immigration system will scare off tech founders
1–10 of 29 posts
Re: The UK’s points-based immigration system will scare off tech founders
#2Many non-EU nationals working in the UK, and from those I've spoken with, it will become a bit easier and fairer for them and with that, all non-uk nationals as a whole.
Sure, won't be able to underpay people so easily as they have done with EU nationals and that is a good thing.
But I appreciate that cheap staff is always a boon for any company in whatever industry, but that's not fair on the people though really.
As for the scare tech founders off aspect, the article seems to slant it's focus upon European ones and that may well be true, more so as the UK will not be part of the EU.
Which in effect means that the playing field is fairer for all non-UK nationals as it removes that EU national privilege.
But let us see how it pans, and would be great to tag an article for review a year or two later on in which clarity and actualities can replace speculation.
Re: The UK’s points-based immigration system will scare off tech founders
#3Many non-EU nationals working in the UK, and from those I've spoken with, it will become a bit easier and fairer for them and with that, all non-uk nationals as a whole. Sure, won't be able to underpay people so easily as they have done with EU nationals and that is a good thing. But I appreciate that cheap staff is always a boon for any company in whatever industry, but that's not fair on the people though really. A…
>Sure, won't be able to underpay people so easily as they have done with EU nationals and that is a good thing.
What makes you say EU expats were easier target to underpay in contrast to non-EU ones?
IMHO from my experience they just try to underpay everyone but have more success with non-EU expats as they have less freedom of movement than the EU one and their visa is tied to an employer in the beginning so their options are much more limited than the EU expats who can work for any company in any EU country.
Re: The UK’s points-based immigration system will scare off tech founders
#4Many non-EU nationals working in the UK, and from those I've spoken with, it will become a bit easier and fairer for them and with that, all non-uk nationals as a whole. Sure, won't be able to underpay people so easily as they have done with EU nationals and that is a good thing. But I appreciate that cheap staff is always a boon for any company in whatever industry, but that's not fair on the people though really. A…
>Sure, won't be able to underpay people so easily as they have done with EU nationals and that is a good thing. What makes you say EU expats were easier target to underpay in contrast to non-EU ones? IMHO from my experience they just try to underpay everyone but have more success with non-EU expats as they have less freedom of movement than the EU one and their visa is tied to an employer in the beginning so their op…
>What makes you say EU expats were easier target to underpay in contrast to non-EU ones?
Easy - EU nationals had the right to work so no visa requirements at all, which would entail having a certain level of salary - now that will apply to all - how can that not be fairer?
Though remote workers will always be a thing - especially in tech, so there are always ways around everything.
Re: The UK’s points-based immigration system will scare off tech founders
#5Many non-EU nationals working in the UK, and from those I've spoken with, it will become a bit easier and fairer for them and with that, all non-uk nationals as a whole. Sure, won't be able to underpay people so easily as they have done with EU nationals and that is a good thing. But I appreciate that cheap staff is always a boon for any company in whatever industry, but that's not fair on the people though really. A…
> "cheap staff"
This seems to be the stock response anytime one mentions foreign workers.
Who gets to determine what's "cheap"? Look at it from the business' perspective, perhaps your asks are exorbitant, way too disproportionate to their abilities - salary-gouging by constricting supply - and end-up sinking the business.
Re: The UK’s points-based immigration system will scare off tech founders
#6Incorporating a startup in the UK becomes much less attractive after Brexit because EU markets are not easily accessible anymore. I think EU founders will take into account this first. If you add paperwork on top of that I don't see why founders wouldn't just incorporate let's say in Estonia and just travel to London on a tourist Visa to look for funding if needed.
Re: The UK’s points-based immigration system will scare off tech founders
#7Many non-EU nationals working in the UK, and from those I've spoken with, it will become a bit easier and fairer for them and with that, all non-uk nationals as a whole. Sure, won't be able to underpay people so easily as they have done with EU nationals and that is a good thing. But I appreciate that cheap staff is always a boon for any company in whatever industry, but that's not fair on the people though really. A…
> "cheap staff" This seems to be the stock response anytime one mentions foreign workers. Who gets to determine what's "cheap"? Look at it from the business' perspective, perhaps your asks are exorbitant, way too disproportionate to their abilities - salary-gouging by constricting supply - and end-up sinking the business.
Don't fully agree with GP but if a business can only survive by underpaying people and especially expats, which is common in EU tech sector, then that business deserves to sink.
Nothing personal with those businesses but some of them (you know who they are) are exploitative and only help to aggravate the ever increasing inequality.
Re: The UK’s points-based immigration system will scare off tech founders
#8Incorporating a startup in the UK becomes much less attractive after Brexit because EU markets are not easily accessible anymore. I think EU founders will take into account this first. If you add paperwork on top of that I don't see why founders wouldn't just incorporate let's say in Estonia and just travel to London on a tourist Visa to look for funding if needed.
Spot on - more so Estonia is by far one of the best tech hubs in Europe with many brilliantly staff that speak English and brexit or not, would be my choice over London for any EU tech startup brexit or not.
[EDIT ADD] https://startupestonia.ee/why-estonia well worth reading that and shows how Estonia would be the best choice for any EU startup anyhow
Re: The UK’s points-based immigration system will scare off tech founders
#9Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Sure, won't be able to underpay people so easily as they have done with EU nationals and that is a good thing. What makes you say EU expats were easier target to underpay in contrast to non-EU ones? IMHO from my experience they just try to underpay everyone but have more success with non-EU expats as they have less freedom of movement than the EU one and their visa is tied to an employer in the beginning so their op…
>What makes you say EU expats were easier target to underpay in contrast to non-EU ones? Easy - EU nationals had the right to work so no visa requirements at all, which would entail having a certain level of salary - now that will apply to all - how can that not be fairer? Though remote workers will always be a thing - especially in tech, so there are always ways around everything.
Don't think your argument holds water.
I understand your non-EU expat friends are happy with less competition on the market, but the minimum salary a highly skilled non-EU expat had to have to qualify for visa was in the 36K ball park which is comically low for someone advertised as highly skilled on UK(mostly South of England) CoL. There is no way any highly skilled EU expat would work for less than that to argument that they're responsible for wage dumping.
EU expats are avoiding the UK now not because they might not meet the new visa requirements, but because of the insecurity Brexit brought and they have other equally attractive options like BeNeLux, Scandinavia, Switzerland or Germany.
Re: The UK’s points-based immigration system will scare off tech founders
#10Earlier quoted context omitted.
> "cheap staff" This seems to be the stock response anytime one mentions foreign workers. Who gets to determine what's "cheap"? Look at it from the business' perspective, perhaps your asks are exorbitant, way too disproportionate to their abilities - salary-gouging by constricting supply - and end-up sinking the business.
Don't fully agree with GP but if a business can only survive by underpaying people and especially expats, which is common in EU tech sector, then that business deserves to sink. Nothing personal with those businesses but some of them (you know who they are) are exploitative and only help to aggravate the ever increasing inequality.
"underpaying" - as compared to who? Who gets to determine that?
It's very easy to scoff at "cheap labor" when in my experience it's far more often than not, the entitled , incompetents (they pair often) who complain. Just because someone feels entitled to a salary means they are worthy of it. In fact, oftentimes not!