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A 96 Bitcoin ransom payment ends up on Bitfinex

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Re: A 96 Bitcoin ransom payment ends up on Bitfinex

#2
I know soooo very little about crypto currency, but his idea here makes sense, at least to me, but what do I know. Is it possible to create a registry like this, or is this never going to work?

"Given bitcoin traceability and the ease of getting an injunction, one can imagine that it might make sense for insurers, bitcoin exchanges, and over-the-counter traders to build some sort of private "ransom registry". The moment that an insurer pays a ransom to a hacker, that insurer simultaneously announces the offending address to the registry. A verified OTC trading desk can now protect itself from potential bankruptcy by always checking the registry to make sure that any bitcoins offered to it are "good" bitcoins. Exchanges too would likewise cross-check incoming bitcoin deposits against the registry."

Re: A 96 Bitcoin ransom payment ends up on Bitfinex

#3

I know soooo very little about crypto currency, but his idea here makes sense, at least to me, but what do I know. Is it possible to create a registry like this, or is this never going to work? "Given bitcoin traceability and the ease of getting an injunction, one can imagine that it might make sense for insurers, bitcoin exchanges, and over-the-counter traders to build some sort of private "ransom registry". The mom…

What if someone gave you change in cash, then you went to deposit it at a bank, and they refused to take it because those bills were in a registry?

You could check the registry yourself before accepting change, but what if those bills weren't in the registry when you checked?

Such a system could be implemented for bitcoin but there are crypto currencies with stronger privacy guarantees for which this would be practically impossible (those guarantees could maybe be cracked in the future, people are working hard on both sides).

Re: A 96 Bitcoin ransom payment ends up on Bitfinex

#4

I know soooo very little about crypto currency, but his idea here makes sense, at least to me, but what do I know. Is it possible to create a registry like this, or is this never going to work? "Given bitcoin traceability and the ease of getting an injunction, one can imagine that it might make sense for insurers, bitcoin exchanges, and over-the-counter traders to build some sort of private "ransom registry". The mom…

Such services exist and are in use by many bitcoin organisations: https://www.elliptic.co/

Re: A 96 Bitcoin ransom payment ends up on Bitfinex

#5

I know soooo very little about crypto currency, but his idea here makes sense, at least to me, but what do I know. Is it possible to create a registry like this, or is this never going to work? "Given bitcoin traceability and the ease of getting an injunction, one can imagine that it might make sense for insurers, bitcoin exchanges, and over-the-counter traders to build some sort of private "ransom registry". The mom…

Not a cryptocurrency expert either but I suspect there will always be someone willing to launder the cryptocoins for a large enough commission.

Re: A 96 Bitcoin ransom payment ends up on Bitfinex

#6
>surely ransomed bitcoins qualify as stolen

Is this typically the case? As far as I understand, fraud losses for example are often treated quite differently than stolen goods. Are ransom payments really considered stolen?

This doesn't necessarily seem like the kind of a situation where the nemo dat rule would be directly applicable, especially given that it doesn't typically extend to money anyway.

Re: A 96 Bitcoin ransom payment ends up on Bitfinex

#7
This is why Bitcoin's traceability is a problem for it's money status. If people are actively pursuing the stolen bitcoins, regardless of who's currently holding them, then Bitcoin's fungibility will break as some coins will be worth more than others.

The only cryptocurrency that comes close to solving this is Monero, which isn't traceable.

If the attackers were smart, this is what they would've done: Send them to Bitfinex, which is an unregulated and shady exchange, sell them for Monero and withdraw them immediately. Congratulations, now you have a bunch of untraceable cryptocurrency.

Re: A 96 Bitcoin ransom payment ends up on Bitfinex

#8

I know soooo very little about crypto currency, but his idea here makes sense, at least to me, but what do I know. Is it possible to create a registry like this, or is this never going to work? "Given bitcoin traceability and the ease of getting an injunction, one can imagine that it might make sense for insurers, bitcoin exchanges, and over-the-counter traders to build some sort of private "ransom registry". The mom…

The thing is that 96 bitcoin could be thrown through a mixer of sorts.

Take the 96 bitcoin, split it into 96 different addresses with 1 bitcoin, then mix those 96 individual addresses to multiple new addresses and then reassemble them elsewhere. This is a horrible explanation, but explains the general idea. You could also mix from Bitcoin to Monero or another currency and back again through various pairs.

There are lots of things out there to attempt to trace the bitcoins back to the source since every transaction is always logged, however if people keep rearranging coins on various addresses it does make it harder.

Having a blacklist registry of all bad/stolen coins would be great if implemented, however I don't know how feasible it would be.

Re: A 96 Bitcoin ransom payment ends up on Bitfinex

#9
post #7

This is why Bitcoin's traceability is a problem for it's money status. If people are actively pursuing the stolen bitcoins, regardless of who's currently holding them, then Bitcoin's fungibility will break as some coins will be worth more than others. The only cryptocurrency that comes close to solving this is Monero, which isn't traceable. If the attackers were smart, this is what they would've done: Send them to Bi…

Traceability is also a benefit. It makes corruption easier to find.

Re: A 96 Bitcoin ransom payment ends up on Bitfinex

#10
Fascinating and also good news IMHO as it starts to highlight that bitcoins can be tracked and today a stolen mobile phone can be blocked and logged upon a database as stolen, so could bitcoins.

I'm thinking that there is a need/opportunity to be able to register bitcoins as stolen and if vendors used that database, the whole raft of bitcoins used for nefarious activities and more so stolen ones, can be curtailed. Counterpoint to that thinking would be that it would not curtail the criminal activities such as ransom payments, only shift them into other forms.

Also interesting that the incident response team do not track or follow up tracing and tracking the bitcoins used and that a separate company and process was avenued. This shows that incident response is still a learning process, though encouraging that such situations are within their remit of response and as a service for companies - an important one.

Another take away from this is that law enforcement need to up there game, had this been hard cash, they would be driving this and not the insurance company. That shows how they are behind the times and most likely, budget/skill shortages playing out. But a million dollars is a million dollars in any currency, including crypto currency and again, had this been hard currency, you know that they would of been more resource involved. Though please don't take that as an indictment upon the police services, more an indictment of their resource limitations and one that needs addressing and raised up the flagpole.

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