America's Most Underappreciated Right: Public Assembly
theatlantic.com
America's Most Underappreciated Right: Public Assembly
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Re: America's Most Underappreciated Right: Public Assembly
#2Something I wish was addressed is what the right to peaceable assembly even looks like in the age of technology. I guess the same could be said about free speech, but I feel the greatest threat to these rights isn't from the government, but from tech monopolies whose platforms have become defacto "town halls" or "town squares". If Reddit, Twitter, Discord etc, are how people assemble and communicate in the 21st century, then what are the implications of these companies being able to shut down groups unilaterally?
Re: America's Most Underappreciated Right: Public Assembly
#3Assembling peacefully is OK in the USA, unless the authorities don't like it, then it's not OK.
Like Occupy wall street when loads of people were arrested just for assembling.[1]
Of course, there's always the classic "arrested for resisting arrest" [2] too.
[1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/oct/19/naomi-wolf-arr...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeDsO5R8Xr0
Even when you know the law, and follow it very closely, you can still be arrested.
Re: America's Most Underappreciated Right: Public Assembly
#4Assembling peacefully is OK in the USA, unless the authorities don't like it, then it's not OK. Like Occupy wall street when loads of people were arrested just for assembling.[1] Of course, there's always the classic "arrested for resisting arrest" [2] too. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/oct/19/naomi-wolf-arr... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeDsO5R8Xr0 Even when you know the law, and follow it very clo…
It's important to remember that even fundamental rights are subject to things like time, place, and manner restrictions. The right to free speech does not generally include doing so at 150Db at 2am in a residential neighborhood. It also sometimes includes restrictions like not blocking public right-of-ways while assembling in public. Freedom of religion does not extend to freedom to engage in the practice of human sacrifice.
I understand that not everyone shares this understanding. I also understand that not everyone agrees that such restrictions are reasonable.
Re: America's Most Underappreciated Right: Public Assembly
#5Something I wish was addressed is what the right to peaceable assembly even looks like in the age of technology. I guess the same could be said about free speech, but I feel the greatest threat to these rights isn't from the government, but from tech monopolies whose platforms have become defacto "town halls" or "town squares". If Reddit, Twitter, Discord etc, are how people assemble and communicate in the 21st centu…
I think this is the big risk with infrastructure being privatized. The big tech companies can shut down things they don’t want to see in public.
Now imagine roads being fully privatized. Yes, you can assemble somewhere but the owners of the roads can make sure that nobody gets there.
Re: America's Most Underappreciated Right: Public Assembly
#6Something I wish was addressed is what the right to peaceable assembly even looks like in the age of technology. I guess the same could be said about free speech, but I feel the greatest threat to these rights isn't from the government, but from tech monopolies whose platforms have become defacto "town halls" or "town squares". If Reddit, Twitter, Discord etc, are how people assemble and communicate in the 21st centu…
I think this is the big risk with infrastructure being privatized. The big tech companies can shut down things they don’t want to see in public. Now imagine roads being fully privatized. Yes, you can assemble somewhere but the owners of the roads can make sure that nobody gets there.
Right, I can definitely see the danger with something public being taken private, but I feel like it's happening more often in the opposite direction. I just read this recently (https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/24/business/walmart-edna-tex...) and it's another example of the same thing. If a business/platform/whatever becomes wildly successful, to the point where some large % of the poluation relies on it, then when should it be regarded as "infrastructure" where people's individual rights come into play?
Re: America's Most Underappreciated Right: Public Assembly
#7Assembling peacefully is OK in the USA, unless the authorities don't like it, then it's not OK. Like Occupy wall street when loads of people were arrested just for assembling.[1] Of course, there's always the classic "arrested for resisting arrest" [2] too. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/oct/19/naomi-wolf-arr... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeDsO5R8Xr0 Even when you know the law, and follow it very clo…
It's important to remember that even fundamental rights are subject to things like time, place, and manner restrictions. The right to free speech does not generally include doing so at 150Db at 2am in a residential neighborhood. It also sometimes includes restrictions like not blocking public right-of-ways while assembling in public. Freedom of religion does not extend to freedom to engage in the practice of human sa…
I understand and agree with everything you said.
My understanding is that around 2000 people were arrested[1] for peacefully assembling. It wasn't 2am, and they were not sacrificing any humans.
In the case of Naomi being arrested that I posted above, she very clearly knew the sidewalks are public, and she was very clearly not breaking any laws, and was arrested anyway. Of course charges were later dropped, because the Police very well knew they had nothing on her.
So when the Police in the USA don't like your perfectly legal use of 'right at assemble' they arrest you, fingerprint you, make sure you get a record and are out of the way for a while, then just kick you out the back door when they're sick of you.
That doesn't sound so great to me.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupy_Wall_Street#Arrests
Re: America's Most Underappreciated Right: Public Assembly
#8Something I wish was addressed is what the right to peaceable assembly even looks like in the age of technology. I guess the same could be said about free speech, but I feel the greatest threat to these rights isn't from the government, but from tech monopolies whose platforms have become defacto "town halls" or "town squares". If Reddit, Twitter, Discord etc, are how people assemble and communicate in the 21st centu…
Replace Reddit, Twitter, and Discord or any of the zillion other social networks that exist, the existence of which undermines your concerns from the start, and put in something more traditional like a mall, a private cemetery, or the local coffee shop.
You can assemble as much as you like in any of these places during business hours. There might be some quality to them, the availability of open space, good seating, amenities, etc. that make them the best for the type of assembly you wish to engage in. You might think how great it is that anyone can basically assemble here, and exercise their first amendment rights, plot how they’re going to take The Man down a few pegs and discuss how evil capitalism is over Starbucks Frappuccinos or how there should be a constitutional amendment against flag burning. Whatever floats your boat.
The property owners of these places also have rights, they’re called property rights. Just because you appreciate their general accessibility and other qualities that make them a nice place to meet and politically organize doesn’t make them any less private property than they are, nor does it take away from the right of the property owners to approach your assembly and tell you lot to knock it off and go somewhere else. And the beauty is, you can go somewhere else and engage in the same activity. The amenities in your existing “assembly hall” of choice might be nice, but they’re not yours to demand.
Now to make this a little more 21st Century, there are a plethora of means to communicate, assemble, and organize over the Internet that don’t depend on the amenities of reddit, Twitter, Discord, Facebook, Hacker News, Snapchat, iMessages, TikTok, etc. If the one that you’re on now doesn’t want you there, go somewhere else, try Mastodon out or make a blog or mailing list. You’ve got options, and so long as you’ve got options and there’s no one single state sanctioned social network to depend on, I have no more sympathy for someone demanding that Reddit let them post whatever they want than I do for the group that gets kicked out of the food court at the mall.
This newfangled technology, for all the importance we seemingly as a society ascribe to it, just isn’t that important to the general functioning of society as demonstrated by the previous hundreds of millennia we’ve existed and organized into societies of some sort without the help of social media.
The exercise of your right to peaceably assemble looks exactly as it always has, with the same stipulations and limitations that it always had. It is in fact, easier to exercise these rights by using modern technology, but it isn’t strictly necessary to have modern technology to exercise your rights.
Re: America's Most Underappreciated Right: Public Assembly
#9Something I wish was addressed is what the right to peaceable assembly even looks like in the age of technology. I guess the same could be said about free speech, but I feel the greatest threat to these rights isn't from the government, but from tech monopolies whose platforms have become defacto "town halls" or "town squares". If Reddit, Twitter, Discord etc, are how people assemble and communicate in the 21st centu…
Replace Reddit, Twitter, and Discord or any of the zillion other social networks that exist, the existence of which undermines your concerns from the start, and put in something more traditional like a mall, a private cemetery, or the local coffee shop. You can assemble as much as you like in any of these places during business hours. There might be some quality to them, the availability of open space, good seating,…
I like that there is a logic and consistency to this "hyper-capitalist" approach, but the founders could not have had internet platforms in mind when they wrote the rules. Back when the country was 10,000x smaller, then yes, meeting in person at the equivalent of a mall would empower a group enough to keep the authorities worried. But now? Could anything like the umbrella movement in Hong Kong happen without the organizing power of social media?
Re: America's Most Underappreciated Right: Public Assembly
#10Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's important to remember that even fundamental rights are subject to things like time, place, and manner restrictions. The right to free speech does not generally include doing so at 150Db at 2am in a residential neighborhood. It also sometimes includes restrictions like not blocking public right-of-ways while assembling in public. Freedom of religion does not extend to freedom to engage in the practice of human sa…
I understand and agree with everything you said. My understanding is that around 2000 people were arrested[1] for peacefully assembling. It wasn't 2am, and they were not sacrificing any humans. In the case of Naomi being arrested that I posted above, she very clearly knew the sidewalks are public, and she was very clearly not breaking any laws, and was arrested anyway. Of course charges were later dropped, because th…
Then it would be up to a competent attorney to sue the arresting officer under 42 usc 1983 civil actions for deprivations of rights. The law provided for reasonable attorney fees to be paid by a defendant who violated your civil rights. The nice thing is that even though your suing the officer who violated your civil rights they are usually covered by an insurance policy so it's technically not an asset poor officer paying the judgement