Drink Poison and Smile: How I Arrived at My Position of Pro-Democracy
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Re: Drink Poison and Smile: How I Arrived at My Position of Pro-Democracy
#2I was super confused by the initial "A letter to our brothers and sisters just north of the border." until I figured out it was a Hong Kong writer speaking to mainland China residents.
Re: Drink Poison and Smile: How I Arrived at My Position of Pro-Democracy
#3HK youth love to play the fake victim, blame their country China and their SAR government for their own economic stagnation, and blame the police for their own violence.
They're scared they have no future. In response they're demanding someone give them a future, and not taking responsibility to create that for themselves.
Re: Drink Poison and Smile: How I Arrived at My Position of Pro-Democracy
#4I agree that the things described are very bad. But I do want to point that many western democratic governments do things that might be just as bad (are the Uyghur Muslims treated worse than immigrants in many western places like US / EU / AUS?).
Though I have to admit I'm not well informed on exactly what type of "democracy" they are after. If you get the majority of people to not care about what happens to a minority, it doesn't really matter how a government is structured (when it comes to democracy we see see things like "Tyranny of the masses").
EDIT: everyone disliked this comment but I think because I used the wrong examples. So I quickly want to clarify what I mean:
He wants a different political system (democratic) and his arguments are that the current one did many bad things. My point is that changing the political system doesn't change the bad things he's talking about. As we can clearly see in many democratic systems in the world.
Re: Drink Poison and Smile: How I Arrived at My Position of Pro-Democracy
#5You should write this in Chinese so the Mainlanders could actually read it.
Re: Drink Poison and Smile: How I Arrived at My Position of Pro-Democracy
#6I agree that the things described are very bad. But I do want to point that many western democratic governments do things that might be just as bad (are the Uyghur Muslims treated worse than immigrants in many western places like US / EU / AUS?). Though I have to admit I'm not well informed on exactly what type of "democracy" they are after. If you get the majority of people to not care about what happens to a minori…
> are the Uyghur Muslims treated worse than immigrants in many western places like US / EU / AUS?
For one, the Uyghur are not immigrants. As bad as you may think immigrants are treated in US/EU/AUS, China wouldn't even let them in in the first place.
Also given that China has to actively prevent the Uyghur from leaving, while the West has to prevent immigrants from entering, should tell you who's treated worse.
Re: Drink Poison and Smile: How I Arrived at My Position of Pro-Democracy
#7I agree that the things described are very bad. But I do want to point that many western democratic governments do things that might be just as bad (are the Uyghur Muslims treated worse than immigrants in many western places like US / EU / AUS?). Though I have to admit I'm not well informed on exactly what type of "democracy" they are after. If you get the majority of people to not care about what happens to a minori…
Western countries may not always live up to ideals with the pressures of migration, but it is disingenous to compare immigrants to a resident minority. Please note that in EU at least, a lot of the conflict is about who counts as an asylum seeker and who must immigrate normally.
Re: Drink Poison and Smile: How I Arrived at My Position of Pro-Democracy
#8I agree that the things described are very bad. But I do want to point that many western democratic governments do things that might be just as bad (are the Uyghur Muslims treated worse than immigrants in many western places like US / EU / AUS?). Though I have to admit I'm not well informed on exactly what type of "democracy" they are after. If you get the majority of people to not care about what happens to a minori…
There has been abusive treatment of some illegal immigrants into some of these countries, particularly recently, but there had also been massive outcries about it.
In almost every case the law and public opinion has stopped or prevented the worst mistreatment. The Australian detention centres are winding down, the separation of children from their families ordered by Trump was successfully challenged in court. Massive public protests and press coverage worked.
Therefore it seems perfectly reasonable to hold China to the same standards of public accountability and legal due process that other countries are held to.
Re: Drink Poison and Smile: How I Arrived at My Position of Pro-Democracy
#9I agree that the things described are very bad. But I do want to point that many western democratic governments do things that might be just as bad (are the Uyghur Muslims treated worse than immigrants in many western places like US / EU / AUS?). Though I have to admit I'm not well informed on exactly what type of "democracy" they are after. If you get the majority of people to not care about what happens to a minori…
Western countries may not always live up to ideals with the pressures of migration, but it is disingenous to compare immigrants to a resident minority. Please note that in EU at least, a lot of the conflict is about who counts as an asylum seeker and who must immigrate normally.
> Western countries may not always live up to ideals with the pressures of migration, but it is disingenous to compare immigrants to a resident minority
That's just one example that popped into my head. I can pick another example if you don't like this one. How about how black people are treated in the US? Not all of them are in concentration camps, but many of them are in jail for non violent "crimes" (for example for doing things that have since become legal in many states). Or how muslims are treated everywhere in the west?
I'm not defending China, I'm just saying many countries do terrible things - also democratic ones (sometimes it's the goverment, sometimes it's the people).
Re: Drink Poison and Smile: How I Arrived at My Position of Pro-Democracy
#10I agree that the things described are very bad. But I do want to point that many western democratic governments do things that might be just as bad (are the Uyghur Muslims treated worse than immigrants in many western places like US / EU / AUS?). Though I have to admit I'm not well informed on exactly what type of "democracy" they are after. If you get the majority of people to not care about what happens to a minori…
There has been abusive treatment of some illegal immigrants into some of these countries, particularly recently, but there had also been massive outcries about it. In almost every case the law and public opinion has stopped or prevented the worst mistreatment. The Australian detention centres are winding down, the separation of children from their families ordered by Trump was successfully challenged in court. Massiv…
My understanding of US detention centers is that their capacity is only expanding.