Boeing 737 Max Hit Trouble Right Away, Pilot’s Tense Radio Messages Show
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Re: Boeing 737 Max Hit Trouble Right Away, Pilot’s Tense Radio Messages Show
#2Before the wild speculation, here's some words from an actual aviation expert, Greg Feith:
It is sad to hear some of the “junior investigator” talking heads make a storyline out of factoids or no facts about the 737 MAX. They embellish their credentials to sound smart when in fact they have no clue and say things about analyzing data that doesn’t exist....
A good friend of mine who is a former airline captain and flight safety professional ant be the following:
“The VAST majority of the inane comments and knee jerk industry reactions on FB and AV Herald are based on no valid nor substantiated information regarding the MAX aircraft.
However, NO one is talking about the pilots, nor the airlines involved, nor the training, nor the experience of the pilots. It IS WELL BEYOND time that these direct factors are understood, investigated and considered a possible contributor to the two distinct MAX accidents.
The accident information in news articles dated 11/28/2018 indicated that the previous crew at Lion Air had experienced the MCAS issue but CORRECTLY dealt with it by disconnecting the stab trim cutouts - as expected in the NNC (non-normal checklist) yet the accident crew could not figure it out. Why the plane was dispatched in an unairworthy condition needs to be addressed and why one crew did and the accident crew did not figure it out the system issues needs to be explored because the deficiencies with the accident flight crew can be traced back to inadequate or deficient training and like suspect pilot qualifications!”
EDIT: Given the rain of downvotes, it looks like a lot of HNers are convinced that mustache twirling villains at Boeing are responsible for the crash, which is extraordinarily unlikely.
Re: Boeing 737 Max Hit Trouble Right Away, Pilot’s Tense Radio Messages Show
#3Before the wild speculation, here's some words from an actual aviation expert, Greg Feith: It is sad to hear some of the “junior investigator” talking heads make a storyline out of factoids or no facts about the 737 MAX. They embellish their credentials to sound smart when in fact they have no clue and say things about analyzing data that doesn’t exist.... A good friend of mine who is a former airline captain and fli…
Is this the same Greg Feith who said:
Investigators including Boeing are going to have to determine whether or not this crew is properly trained and of course, Boeing is going to have to focus on whether or not they have a software or technical issue.
Re: Boeing 737 Max Hit Trouble Right Away, Pilot’s Tense Radio Messages Show
#4Before the wild speculation, here's some words from an actual aviation expert, Greg Feith: It is sad to hear some of the “junior investigator” talking heads make a storyline out of factoids or no facts about the 737 MAX. They embellish their credentials to sound smart when in fact they have no clue and say things about analyzing data that doesn’t exist.... A good friend of mine who is a former airline captain and fli…
Is this the same Greg Feith who said: Investigators including Boeing are going to have to determine whether or not this crew is properly trained and of course, Boeing is going to have to focus on whether or not they have a software or technical issue.
Probably? He's very famous in the ACI community. And as he always says, a plane never goes down for a single reason. The Airbus that crashed into the Atlantic ocean could've been saved if they made the design decision not to "average" inputs from the sticks. Is that a design flaw? Or bad pilot training?
Crashes are always the nexus of a chain of unfortunately and unlucky events. I have no reason to suspect this crash is any different. The only thing I'm confident of is that no matter what the problem is, Boeing will make changes and pilots will receive additional training, and perhaps be required to do simulator time.
Once the 737-MAX is ungrounded I will have no qualms getting inside of one.
Re: Boeing 737 Max Hit Trouble Right Away, Pilot’s Tense Radio Messages Show
#5Before the wild speculation, here's some words from an actual aviation expert, Greg Feith: It is sad to hear some of the “junior investigator” talking heads make a storyline out of factoids or no facts about the 737 MAX. They embellish their credentials to sound smart when in fact they have no clue and say things about analyzing data that doesn’t exist.... A good friend of mine who is a former airline captain and fli…
Honest question, why are people being so aggressive about saying that the human aspects should be considered first and foremost? If there was no problem with the aircraft, that would surely lead us to the conclusion that it was a training/pilot problem anyway. What's the point of pushing the human narrative so hard?
Re: Boeing 737 Max Hit Trouble Right Away, Pilot’s Tense Radio Messages Show
#6Before the wild speculation, here's some words from an actual aviation expert, Greg Feith: It is sad to hear some of the “junior investigator” talking heads make a storyline out of factoids or no facts about the 737 MAX. They embellish their credentials to sound smart when in fact they have no clue and say things about analyzing data that doesn’t exist.... A good friend of mine who is a former airline captain and fli…
Honest question, why are people being so aggressive about saying that the human aspects should be considered first and foremost? If there was no problem with the aircraft, that would surely lead us to the conclusion that it was a training/pilot problem anyway. What's the point of pushing the human narrative so hard?
I have a feeling that people wouldn't be pushing the human/airline aspect quite so much if both of the aforementioned were American or "Western"
Re: Boeing 737 Max Hit Trouble Right Away, Pilot’s Tense Radio Messages Show
#7Earlier quoted context omitted.
Honest question, why are people being so aggressive about saying that the human aspects should be considered first and foremost? If there was no problem with the aircraft, that would surely lead us to the conclusion that it was a training/pilot problem anyway. What's the point of pushing the human narrative so hard?
I have a feeling that people wouldn't be pushing the human/airline aspect quite so much if both of the aforementioned were American or "Western"
Yeah, it's funny how the people decrying "knee-jerk" reactions are the same ones insinuating "suspect pilot qualifications".
Actually, no, it's not funny.
Re: Boeing 737 Max Hit Trouble Right Away, Pilot’s Tense Radio Messages Show
#8Before the wild speculation, here's some words from an actual aviation expert, Greg Feith: It is sad to hear some of the “junior investigator” talking heads make a storyline out of factoids or no facts about the 737 MAX. They embellish their credentials to sound smart when in fact they have no clue and say things about analyzing data that doesn’t exist.... A good friend of mine who is a former airline captain and fli…
It's not that weird for technical people to wonder why, when there are 2 AoA sensors, Boeing didn't consider the readings from both of them as input for the MCAS.
We probably don't assume that was malicious. But we might assume deflecting away from that as an issue to be malicious.
Similar for the fact that the system wasn't well described in the manual.
Re: Boeing 737 Max Hit Trouble Right Away, Pilot’s Tense Radio Messages Show
#9Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is this the same Greg Feith who said: Investigators including Boeing are going to have to determine whether or not this crew is properly trained and of course, Boeing is going to have to focus on whether or not they have a software or technical issue.
Probably? He's very famous in the ACI community. And as he always says, a plane never goes down for a single reason. The Airbus that crashed into the Atlantic ocean could've been saved if they made the design decision not to "average" inputs from the sticks. Is that a design flaw? Or bad pilot training? Crashes are always the nexus of a chain of unfortunately and unlucky events. I have no reason to suspect this crash…
Well, the upside here is that we can literally wait and see. Let’s make out a bookmark in this and resume when the investigation is over.
Re: Boeing 737 Max Hit Trouble Right Away, Pilot’s Tense Radio Messages Show
#10Before the wild speculation, here's some words from an actual aviation expert, Greg Feith: It is sad to hear some of the “junior investigator” talking heads make a storyline out of factoids or no facts about the 737 MAX. They embellish their credentials to sound smart when in fact they have no clue and say things about analyzing data that doesn’t exist.... A good friend of mine who is a former airline captain and fli…
Honest question, why are people being so aggressive about saying that the human aspects should be considered first and foremost? If there was no problem with the aircraft, that would surely lead us to the conclusion that it was a training/pilot problem anyway. What's the point of pushing the human narrative so hard?
This kind of accident doesn't happen for just a single reason, they happen for a SERIES of reasons all together. Some of those reasons are technical, some are environmental, and some are human factor. Blaming any single of them is bullshit... and so is forgetting about any of them.